Could Otz be the end of Hoiberg's coaching career?

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Sigmapolis

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I mean, it certainly is debatable at this point. The offense you're criticizing is about 70 spots better than Fred in year, what, 3? Fred was great at ISU but since he left, there's hardly anything to support that he's an elite mind at this point and I don't give a **** that he's at Nebraska. Either it was talent and he can't get it anymore or it's scheme. Either way, it's not the same.

Plenty of coaches over the years in all sports have remained wedded to a particular scheme or "ideology" that other teams have figured out. Refusing to adapt with the times, they usually fail.

This is what makes a coach like Bill Belichick so brilliant -- he routinely reinvents the entire philosophy of his team to meet the popular trends of the day and play to the strengths of his personnel.

Not sure Fred does that trying to play Hoiball with a bunch of ball-dominant poor-shooting guards in Chicago and a roster full of guys who seem to be pretty bad at shooting that he has in Lincoln.
 

Cy94

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Nov 11, 2011
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Most don't know this, but during Fred's first few seasons in the NBA when it wasn't a sure thing that he was going to stick, he was a financial advisor with Edward Jones in Ames. I assure you that guy still has the first nickel he ever made and more.

He had a car dealership too. His name was on it at least.
 

usedcarguy

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He had a car dealership too. His name was on it at least.

I believe he was part owner. Don't know if he was majority or minority, but it was in Clarion so it's value wasn't much. Don't know if they lost the franchise after GM started cutting dealers or if they threw in the towel.

Edit: Forgot to mention it was a Pritchard store.
 

Cyclones125

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I mean, it certainly is debatable at this point. The offense you're criticizing is about 70 spots better than Fred in year, what, 3? Fred was great at ISU but since he left, there's hardly anything to support that he's an elite mind at this point and I don't give a **** that he's at Nebraska. Either it was talent and he can't get it anymore or it's scheme. Either way, it's not the same.
It's only debatable to people who don't understand basketball. He didn't magically became dumber from 5 years ago, his circumstances changed.
 

Cyclones125

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Offense is not something ISU's current players would excel at no matter who was coaching them.

Unless Fred made them bigger and faster.

This coaching staff got these guys to excel at defense so who's to say a more offensive-minded coach wouldn't be able to do the same. Jameel Mckay did not have much more offensive talent than our current bigs and he averaged 11-8.
 

madguy30

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This coaching staff got these guys to excel at defense so who's to say a more offensive-minded coach wouldn't be able to do the same. Jameel Mckay did not have much more offensive talent than our current bigs and he averaged 11-8.
Now put McKay with the current roster.

It's easier to take lob dunks with a Georges Niang out there with you.
 

mustangcy

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Did a bit of googling to figure out.....

Fred's 10-yr NBA career: $10m
Fred's 12-yr coaching career: $40m.

Financially a brilliant move.

But was it "worth" it?

I'm sure plenty of us would happily be called/viewed a terrible basketball coach for that kind of coin.

So once he was done playing he was set for life, his kids were set for life. At that point wouldn't you just want to win? Be considered a great coach? Be loved in your community? The money he already had made by the time he left ISU should of been reason #1 for him to stay. Someone should of given him the 'grass isn't always greener' talk and told him..."fred, your a millionaire 10-20 times over, your winning championships and might be the most beloved coach not in ISU history but state of Iowa history...maybe you leave well enough alone and enjoy ISU.."
 

AuH2O

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This coaching staff got these guys to excel at defense so who's to say a more offensive-minded coach wouldn't be able to do the same. Jameel Mckay did not have much more offensive talent than our current bigs and he averaged 11-8.
McKay averaged 11-8 with Niang and the greatest A:TO in the history of college basketball, and a very high pace of play. Sounds a bit like he was also able to do it operating in a culture that finally came to a head in the UAB debacle.

Those teams were great offensively. That's not debatable. The question is whether Fred was just an early adopter with NBA concepts to the college game, or an actual offensive wizard. The offense was great during Fred's time here, and the teams were very good. But four good seasons at ISU that totaled 4 NCAA tournament wins is starting to get outweighed by the seven years of catastrophic failure since he left ISU.

For the record - the last three recruiting classes have been 3rd, 12th and 5th in the Big 10. They aren't real talented, but they have no business having a three year run that is horrible by Nebraska basketball standards.
 

Cyclones125

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McKay averaged 11-8 with Niang and the greatest A:TO in the history of college basketball, and a very high pace of play. Sounds a bit like he was also able to do it operating in a culture that finally came to a head in the UAB debacle.

Those teams were great offensively. That's not debatable. The question is whether Fred was just an early adopter with NBA concepts to the college game, or an actual offensive wizard. The offense was great during Fred's time here, and the teams were very good. But four good seasons at ISU that totaled 4 NCAA tournament wins is starting to get outweighed by the seven years of catastrophic failure since he left ISU.

For the record - the last three recruiting classes have been 3rd, 12th and 5th in the Big 10. They aren't real talented, but they have no business having a three year run that is horrible by Nebraska basketball standards.
Suggesting there was a bad culture because we got upset by UAB in the NCAA tournament is such a dumb take. Upsets happen every year. That team also won the Big 12 tourney 5 days before, was it a good culture then?
 

AuH2O

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Suggesting there was a bad culture because we got upset by UAB in the NCAA tournament is such a dumb take. Upsets happen every year. That team also won the Big 12 tourney 5 days before, was it a good culture then?
Lots of people on here close to the program said there was a blowup in the locker room prior to coming out at halftime of the game involving player or players. Lots of people on here close to the program alleging McKay was not held accountable on team commitments much by Fred, and were not surprised when these things showed up the following year under Prohm and he ended up in the doghouse. Not sure to what extent this stuff happened, but there were lots of people that are connected providing a lot of smoke.
 

TClone99

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Lots of people on here close to the program said there was a blowup in the locker room prior to coming out at halftime of the game involving player or players. Lots of people on here close to the program alleging McKay was not held accountable on team commitments much by Fred, and were not surprised when these things showed up the following year under Prohm and he ended up in the doghouse. Not sure to what extent this stuff happened, but there were lots of people that are connected providing a lot of smoke.
I happened to witness a little “display” by McKay in the locker room after the loss to OU at the Big 12 tourney (Niang v. Hield). I remember thinking “holy crap this is what they’ve been dealing with all this time”. The rest of the guys on the team seemed pretty much unfazed.
 

Cyclones125

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Lots of people on here close to the program said there was a blowup in the locker room prior to coming out at halftime of the game involving player or players. Lots of people on here close to the program alleging McKay was not held accountable on team commitments much by Fred, and were not surprised when these things showed up the following year under Prohm and he ended up in the doghouse. Not sure to what extent this stuff happened, but there were lots of people that are connected providing a lot of smoke.
Lots of people on here claim to to know someone who knows someone who is close to the program. Lots of people on here make **** up. Lots of people on here thought Prohm was a good head coach. Lots of people on here are fanatics, but don't know much about sports.

That team had a lot of guys who have proven to be high character and will go down as ISU legends. By all accounts, Mckay probably was a headcase... you'd be hard pressed to find a college team who doesn't have at least one. But hey, at least Prohm was able to hold him accountable and promote a good culture so that they finish 6th in conference, lose first round of Big 12 tourney, and knock off a couple duds in the NCAA tourney with nearly an identical roster (plus 1 more year of experience) of the previous year that had a much better season outside of the UAB game.
 

madguy30

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Lots of people on here close to the program said there was a blowup in the locker room prior to coming out at halftime of the game involving player or players. Lots of people on here close to the program alleging McKay was not held accountable on team commitments much by Fred, and were not surprised when these things showed up the following year under Prohm and he ended up in the doghouse. Not sure to what extent this stuff happened, but there were lots of people that are connected providing a lot of smoke.

Iirc it was pretty well known that season was a bit of a house of cards with team dynamics.
 

Tre4ISU

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It's only debatable to people who don't understand basketball. He didn't magically became dumber from 5 years ago, his circumstances changed.

Well when everyone else gets smarter and you're one of 100 teams going after high level transfers instead of 1 of 5-10 teams you do get dumber as a coach, relatively speaking.

Genius offensive minds don't stack up offenses ranked 165, 179, and 190 after Tim Miles had a top 30 offense. Is Fred as bad as his Nebraska record shows? Probably not, but spare me with the genius offensive stuff
 

Cyinthenorth

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Offense is not something ISU's current players would excel at no matter who was coaching them.

Unless Fred made them bigger and faster.
Size is so key here. We aren't the smallest team in the world, but our guards are pretty short, and our bigs don't create offense at all ala posting up or facing up. There really just isn't a great playmaker on the roster. Brockington isn't bad, but again, he's short and he's resisting the call right now to be the guy that can get to the bucket and score or get fouled. Hunter is emerging game by game, but still very green at this level and again, short. Our bigs struggle to do anything but score on put backs or pick 'n roll or pick 'n pop.

If only Brockington was 2-3" taller...
 

madguy30

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Size is so key here. We aren't the smallest team in the world, but our guards are pretty short, and our bigs don't create offense at all ala posting up or facing up. There really just isn't a great playmaker on the roster. Brockington isn't bad, but again, he's short and he's resisting the call right now to be the guy that can get to the bucket and score or get fouled. Hunter is emerging game by game, but still very green at this level and again, short. Our bigs struggle to do anything but score on put backs or pick 'n roll or pick 'n pop.

If only Brockington was 2-3" taller...

Yep. Anyone who's played even like rec league ball knows that if you get to the lane, and a big athletic person is there, and you can't get them out of position, scoring will be hard and it will be difficult to draw a foul.

I asked early on who was going to be the guy that ISU goes to if they just need a bucket and got slammed a bit for it. They sadly don't have one.

It's nothing against the players--they keep battling no matter what and I'm loving how they bring it every game; they could have just been guys getting some good PT in a rebuild at some school but they are all about it.
 
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Wally86

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This coaching staff got these guys to excel at defense so who's to say a more offensive-minded coach wouldn't be able to do the same. Jameel Mckay did not have much more offensive talent than our current bigs and he averaged 11-8.
Jameel would dunk over either of our current bigs. On the other hand I can’t see him playing the current defensive style or passing out of the high post.
 

Wally86

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Suggesting there was a bad culture because we got upset by UAB in the NCAA tournament is such a dumb take. Upsets happen every year. That team also won the Big 12 tourney 5 days before, was it a good culture then?
Something was bad enough BDJ to not play in the second half.
 

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