Car chase and shots fired

[Freebird]

So why then weren't shots fired during the first aggressive actions? If they were in such grave danger then, why not shoot then? Instead, they wait until the car is damaged and stuck and the police have a better hold on the situation to shoot to kill.

It's pointless to argue about this at this point because the kid is dead and the only side of the story you will hear is that of the police and the increidbly thorough investigation I'm sure they will do into the circumstances surrounding the decision to shoot this kid 6 times.

You are not a cop. You are not a city or county atty. You are not a judge. You have no idea what you are talking about. How about I come to where you work and second guess every decision you make with absolutely no idea of what I am talking about.
When someone uses anything. Including a truck as a deadly weapon. That threat must be neutralized. The police were there trying to protect the public. The police also have a right to protect themselves. If the kid had been using an assault rifle instead of a truck to try to kill someone on campus you would probably be hailing the officer as a hero instead of second guessing him. It isn't like the officer wanted to kill the kid. Trust me on that one. I am sure he is dealing with a lot right now.

 

[baller21]

How can it possibly not be relevant that this guy had just a few minutes earlier tried to park his trailer on top of a cop car and was driving erratically through campus causing people to dive out of his path? He had demonstrated just a few minutes earlier complete disregard for human life, he was not surrendering, and he was continuing to rock the vehicle trying to get it unstuck. His vehicle wasn't pinned. What in those circumstances would make you think that his prior disregard for human life had changed?

I'm just curious. Suppose the cops played it your way, and tried to peacefully apprehend him, but he got unstuck and ran over some students on his way off campus. Are you prepared to say it was just too bad for those students, but innocent bystanders sometimes have to sacrifice so that dangerous criminals can be apprehended alive? I'm sorry...but that's just messed up.

as long as your playing the what if game, what if one of the bullets ricocheted and killed an innocent bystander. he was shooting a gun in a highly populated area. would you still be defending the cop? why couldn't they block him in with their vehicles? why did they even engage in a high speed chase through campustown in the first place? its not like they didn't know who was driving the truck.

 

[Scott34]

as long as your playing the what if game, what if one of the bullets ricocheted and killed an innocent bystander. he was shooting a gun in a highly populated area. would you still be defending the cop? why couldn't they block him in with their vehicles? why did they even engage in a high speed chase through campustown in the first place? its not like they didn't know who was driving the truck.

But they also don't know what that kid was capable of doing. What if he went on a rampage because he was ****** and killed someone. This kid was given the opportunity to get out of the truck. Would a normal human being back up on a squad car? No. This kid was unstable and there is no telling what this kid was going to do next.

 

[baller21]

But they also don't know what that kid was capable of doing. What if he went on a rampage because he was ****** and killed someone. This kid was given the opportunity to get out of the truck. Would a normal human being back up on a squad car? No. This kid was unstable and there is no telling what this kid was going to do next.

Great, more what ifs. He was just trying to get away from the cops. If the kid wanted to kill people, he passed up a lot of good opportunities during the chase don't you think?

 

[CarlHungus]

Great, more what ifs. He was just trying to get away from the cops. If the kid wanted to kill people, he passed up a lot of good opportunities during the chase don't you think?

Well, if he was really concerned about the well-being of others, then he probably wouldn't have been driving a truck through central campus. I don't doubt he wasn't intentionally trying to hurt anybody, but it's pretty clear he was only concerned about himself. It's a miracle no one else was injured or killed

 

[cloneswereall]

Great, more what ifs. He was just trying to get away from the cops. If the kid wanted to kill people, he passed up a lot of good opportunities during the chase don't you think?

And people running from the cops have a fantastic​ record of sound judgment.

 

[CapnCy]

You are not a cop. You are not a city or county atty. You are not a judge. You have no idea what you are talking about. How about I come to where you work and second guess every decision you make with absolutely no idea of what I am talking about.
When someone uses anything. Including a truck as a deadly weapon. That threat must be neutralized. The police were there trying to protect the public. The police also have a right to protect themselves. If the kid had been using an assault rifle instead of a truck to try to kill someone on campus you would probably be hailing the officer as a hero instead of second guessing him. It isn't like the officer wanted to kill the kid. Trust me on that one. I am sure he is dealing with a lot right now.

Very well put.

I'm getting tired of hearing arm chair QBs attacking the police response. I know some that responded and I'll leave it at that.

 

[3TrueFans]

Great, more what ifs. He was just trying to get away from the cops. If the kid wanted to kill people, he passed up a lot of good opportunities during the chase don't you think?

It's not that he wanted to kill people, but that he didn't care how dangerous and potentially life threatening his actions were for others.

 

[cyhawkdmb]

Man I love the popo!


SAPD: Man Tasered while attempting to save infant son from a house fire | kens5.com San Antonio

 

[chuckd4735]

So why then weren't shots fired during the first aggressive actions? If they were in such grave danger then, why not shoot then? Instead, they wait until the car is damaged and stuck and the police have a better hold on the situation to shoot to kill.

It's pointless to argue about this at this point because the kid is dead and the only side of the story you will hear is that of the police and the increidbly thorough investigation I'm sure they will do into the circumstances surrounding the decision to shoot this kid 6 times.

The cop was in his car and at that time far enough away from campus. Again, the second the chase moves onto campus, your chance of hitting an innocent by-standard goes WAY up.

I'm pretty sure if this same scenario took place in a cornfield, no shots would of ever been fired.

 

[Cyfan4good]

Fortunately officers aren't judged by "media reports" or by passionate but uniformed citizens who wish there had been another way. If you are truly interested in finding out what counts when the courts consider use of force cases do a little research. Here's a start: Graham vs Connor, a landmark case whereby the supreme court sets use of force criteria for which law enforcement should be judged. I realize many of you won't take the time to study this reality as it might burst your unrealistic bubble from within which you find warmth and security.

Caution: em folks in this videeeo aint from around here.

Graham v Connor - YouTube

 

[AuH2O]

First of all, it's absolutely relevant, because it's a clear indication of what he's going to do if he gets away again. Second, the eye witness account account I saw said after the truck hit the tree the suspect was still trying to ram police vehicles in an attempt to free the truck.

Yeah, from what I have read it sounded like he was still trying to get the truck loose, which could've happened at any time. At that point you'd have a crackpot that to that point had shown zero regard for the safety of anyone (including himself) driving a truck through a highly populated area full of pedestrians.

I love all of the people that think cops, armed home owners, etc. need to do everything possible including take a chance with their own safety or an innocent bystander so a reckless criminal can live. Let's say we go with that and say you have two options. One is exactly what happened, with this guy dead or the second option, which is say a 5% chance he gets loose and kills an innocent bystander. Neither option is good, but the better of the two was exercised.

 

[AuH2O]

I don't think some people understand where the dad is coming from. His son stole a company vehicle and called the cops to say his son took the vehicle, and he was willing to file a missing vehicle report. It's very possible with his sons emotional issues, he feared his son was going to take this vehicle somewhere. Calling the cops, in the fathers mind at the time, could've been for his sons safety, and making sure he isn't stealing a vehicle and doing something extremely dangerous.

That's my speculation as well. If a parent goes to that extent he knows it's serious. Whether he was afraid for his son's safety or the safety of others.

 

[TykeClone]

Yeah, from what I have read it sounded like he was still trying to get the truck loose, which could've happened at any time. At that point you'd have a crackpot that to that point had shown zero regard for the safety of anyone (including himself) driving a truck through a highly populated area full of pedestrians.

I love all of the people that think cops, armed home owners, etc. need to do everything possible including take a chance with their own safety or an innocent bystander so a reckless criminal can live. Let's say we go with that and say you have two options. One is exactly what happened, with this guy dead or the second option, which is say a 5% chance he gets loose and kills an innocent bystander. Neither option is good, but the better of the two was exercised.

(Not necessarily just a reply to you, but...)

The police could have penned the truck in with their cars. They instead chose to use deadly force against someone who "didn't follow orders" and ****** them off.

The question in this case should be - was deadly force required? If not, why did they choose to employ it? If so - who specifically was in danger should they have decided not to employ it?

I'm not so sure that this was a justified shooting for the police. they had the truck stopped and could have boxed it in in such a way that it was inescapable.

 

[wxman1]

I am with Tyke, imo they did not do the easy thing of boxing it in while it was stuck. Instead they shot to kill (no sugar coating it) once he was stuck there was no attempt to take him alive.

 

[chuckd4735]

(Not necessarily just a reply to you, but...)

The police could have penned the truck in with their cars. They instead chose to use deadly force against someone who "didn't follow orders" and ****** them off.

The question in this case should be - was deadly force required? If not, why did they choose to employ it? If so - who specifically was in danger should they have decided not to employ it?

I'm not so sure that this was a justified shooting for the police. they had the truck stopped and could have boxed it in in such a way that it was inescapable.

Yeah I wont disagree that they prob missed an opportunity to box him in, but he still had a large truck that was bigger then any cop car, and if he absolutely wanted to, he probably still could of got away.

 

[CycloneErik]

Yeah I wont disagree that they prob missed an opportunity to box him in, but he still had a large truck that was bigger then any cop car, and if he absolutely wanted to, he probably still could of got away.

Wouldn't damage to a police car be better than a dead man?
If he's pinned in, it seems like they could put forth a little effort to bring him out of this alive. If he was as panicked as things seem, try something to calm him down.

I'm not sure on this. I'm just not convinced very quickly that shooting was necessary.

 

[Tailg8er]

I am with Tyke, imo they did not do the easy thing of boxing it in while it was stuck. Instead they shot to kill (no sugar coating it) once he was stuck there was no attempt to take him alive.

Very possible they could have boxed him in & that could have been the best choice, hard to say for sure without being there. But no doubt they shot to kill, officers aren't trained to shoot to warn/injure.

I'm not generally a police fan on a lot of things, but based on info known at this point I'm with them on this one.

 

[3TrueFans]

I am with Tyke, imo they did not do the easy thing of boxing it in while it was stuck. Instead they shot to kill (no sugar coating it) once he was stuck there was no attempt to take him alive.

I'm going to guess that these assumptions aren't based on any type of fact?

 

[CyCy]

How about firing one warning shot and then telling the driver that if the truck starts to move the next shots will be at the driver.