Big 12 Expansion (new thread)

[HFCS]

My only concern with this layout is you are cutting off recruitment to Texas. You'd fix that by putting a clause into scheduling that each school plays in Texas at least 1 time a year at a minimum.

In B12 south we used to rotate the same 3 on and same 3 off on 2 year cycles.

Could do the same again, but make sure nobody has the 3 Texas schools on one schedule.

It'll be a bit of an advantage for whomever plays UCF more frequently. With 3 texas schools out of 11 possible opponents it shouldn't be that hard to get regular games in Texas.

More than anything I want an answer to this question...Does Rutgers still deliver New York City to the Big Ten?

If that's the case the Big 12 still has the entire state of Texas (#2 pop), just added Florida (#3 pop) and Ohio (#7 pop). The 5 programs in those states definitely have as much interest as Rutgers has in NYC...which is basically zero.

So which is it? Is Rutgers a total drag because it doesn't actually deliver NYC and doesn't actually have fans that watch sports on TV...or does Rutgers deliver NYC and the Big 12's cable TV market is now as good as any conference in the nation?

It can't be both equally. We're transitioning away from the "Rutgers prize" model but some of it is still clearly there or the Big Ten wouldn't have an east coast footprint because of two teams that don't have a big avid fan base.

 

[surly]

K-State's roster includes 18 Texans, Nebraska has nine. That's what comes of realignment for the Nubs and why placement is so important. I think ISU being with Cincinnati would be helpful to CMC's recruiting strategies.

 

[nwcat]

So which is it? Is Rutgers a total drag because it doesn't actually deliver NYC and doesn't actually have fans that watch sports on TV...or does Rutgers deliver NYC and the Big 12's cable TV market is now as good as any conference in the nation?

It can't be both equally. We're transitioning away from the "Rutgers prize" model but some of it is still clearly there or the Big Ten wouldn't have an east coast footprint because of two teams that don't have a big avid fan base.

I don't think I realized what a hypocritical position you just pointed out.

 

[cyIclSoneU]

I just saw a BYU youtube channel, The "MonteShow" and he was saying that his sources from BYU said that BYU and the Big12 have been talking since a month or two before Texas and Oklahoma announced that they were leaving. He also said that his sources said that the divisions will be:

West - TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech. Houston, Iowa State and BYU
East - K-State, Ku, Oklahoma State, West Virginia, Central Florida and Cincinnati. PurpleWildcat

Others have said this but I can’t think of a single reason why this proposal would be better than flipping ISU and OSU. That change improves it in every single way.

 

[cyIclSoneU]

I would want UCF/Cinci in ISU division for Ohio/FL recruiting. ISU really doesn't attack TX for recruiting. I would think OSU would want TX for recruiting.
I would guess there have been multiple proposals and what BYU would like (TX schools) was provided but UCF and Cinci may not have had their input yet. I'd guess Cinci would want ISU in the same division for travel.

BYU and OSU want Texas
Texas schools want each other
ISU KU KSU want each other
UC and WVU want each other

Not sure about UCF but at this point it doesn’t matter. BYU, OSU, four Texas schools in a West makes them all happy. ISU, KU, KSU with UC and WVU in an East. And UCF fits very naturally in the East. Done

 

[WhoISthis]

In B12 south we used to rotate the same 3 on and same 3 off on 2 year cycles.

Could do the same again, but make sure nobody has the 3 Texas schools on one schedule.

It'll be a bit of an advantage for whomever plays UCF more frequently. With 3 texas schools out of 11 possible opponents it shouldn't be that hard to get regular games in Texas.

More than anything I want an answer to this question...Does Rutgers still deliver New York City to the Big Ten?

If that's the case the Big 12 still has the entire state of Texas (#2 pop), just added Florida (#3 pop) and Ohio (#7 pop). The 5 programs in those states definitely have as much interest as Rutgers has in NYC...which is basically zero.

So which is it? Is Rutgers a total drag because it doesn't actually deliver NYC and doesn't actually have fans that watch sports on TV...or does Rutgers deliver NYC and the Big 12's cable TV market is now as good as any conference in the nation?

It can't be both equally. We're transitioning away from the "Rutgers prize" model but some of it is still clearly there or the Big Ten wouldn't have an east coast footprint because of two teams that don't have a big avid fan base.

What revenue mechanisms are being used?

That is the difference. Unfortunately ours is almost exclusively the one from last century in which fans are needed to deliver a market. The BIG still has carriage fees to get around that. As was talked about in 2010 when some here hoped cord-cutting would save the Big 12, the wealth buildup in the meantime would be so large, the BIG would be so powerful by then, it doesn't matter they added Rutgers. That is exactly how it is playing out

 

[JohnnyFive]

Give me KU and KSU at a minimum in our division and I won't gripe too much about anything else

Im hoping for an East pairing with KU, KSt, Cincy and whoever else. Would be nice if it was Oklahoma State too but I dont think that will work out.

 

[cyclonesurveyor]

went to that game Friday night and would agree. Another factor is there just is no interest in CSU sports. we bought tickets for $19 each in the lower level and there game this week versus Vanderbilt are creeping down to $30-35 range in the same section. I like to go because I’m a football junkyand it’s cheap

I was there too, they weren't even checking tickets. You could just walk in with an open beer.

 

[Itjustdoesn'tmatter]

You could make the east, east and the west, west and let go of the past

East Division:
UCF
WVU
UCin
ISU
UH
KU

West Division:
BYU
TT
TCU
BU
OSU
KSU

 

[JohnnyFive]

You could make the east, east and the west, west and let go of the past

East Division:
UCF
WVU
UCin
ISU
UH
KU

West Division:
BYU
TT
TCU
BU
OSU
KSU

Cant do that. Farmageddon is the longest consecutively played rivalry in college football. I do not want to be separated from a solid rival and also one of the only easily driveable road games we have left

 

[Itjustdoesn'tmatter]

Cant do that. Farmageddon is the longest consecutively played rivalry in college football. I do not want to be separated from a solid rival and also one of the only easily driveable road games we have left

If we add 6 teams we can have divisions of 7
If we add 8 KU, KSU & ISU can be in a pod.
The only other east west option would be to put UH in the west and KSU in the east, but that puts all four Texas schools in the west. That didn't work out so well last time.

 

[Nococy]

I was there too, they weren't even checking tickets. You could just walk in with an open beer.

That was so hard to believe. The cyclones need to get csu on the schedule for a easy win.

 

[Itjustdoesn'tmatter]

How about 11 conference games and one non-conference?

With Iowa, THAT would make the toughest schedule out there!

 

[HFCS]

What revenue mechanisms are being used?

That is the difference. Unfortunately ours is almost exclusively the one from last century in which fans are needed to deliver a market. The BIG still has carriage fees to get around that. As was talked about in 2010 when some here hoped cord-cutting would save the Big 12, the wealth buildup in the meantime would be so large, the BIG would be so powerful by then, it doesn't matter they added Rutgers. That is exactly how it is playing out

It's the question few are asking, is the world really 100% different than 7 years ago?

The four major media market teams we are adding all have equal or better fanbase/attendance/alumni/following as Rutgers. Only seven years ago it was said Rutgers brought a conference NY/NYC without any people in NYC actually caring about Rutgers.

If even 50% of that nonsense is left we just added:
- more of the 2nd most populated state (a state we already had x2 by the Rutgers model), 5th most populated metro
- 3rd most populated state, new market
- 7th most populated state, new market
- Fastest growing population state in country, new market
- Significant international fanbase in BYU, new market

I just don't see how the Big Ten "has" regions like NY, NJ, Maryland, VA, and Mass if the Big 12 doesn't now equally "have" Florida and Ohio in addition to Texas, OK, IA, KS, WV and Utah. Our four additions bring more actual fans in their states per capita than Rutgers and Maryland do.

How far along are we in that transition?

Rutgers: 30K avg attendance
Maryland: 38K
UCF: 44K
BYU: 60K
Houston: 26K
Cincy: 36K

All big media markets (SLC is even big and fastest growing), new Big 12 teams have more actual interest than the new Big Ten teams.

On the flip side if it's avid actual fans who buy subscriptions...the Big 12 can't match SEC and Big Ten but new Big 12 would easily still be above the Pac 12. If two or three ACC leave the ACC could be even behind the Pac.

 

[tman24]

In B12 south we used to rotate the same 3 on and same 3 off on 2 year cycles.

Could do the same again, but make sure nobody has the 3 Texas schools on one schedule.

It'll be a bit of an advantage for whomever plays UCF more frequently. With 3 texas schools out of 11 possible opponents it shouldn't be that hard to get regular games in Texas.

More than anything I want an answer to this question...Does Rutgers still deliver New York City to the Big Ten?

If that's the case the Big 12 still has the entire state of Texas (#2 pop), just added Florida (#3 pop) and Ohio (#7 pop). The 5 programs in those states definitely have as much interest as Rutgers has in NYC...which is basically zero.

So which is it? Is Rutgers a total drag because it doesn't actually deliver NYC and doesn't actually have fans that watch sports on TV...or does Rutgers deliver NYC and the Big 12's cable TV market is now as good as any conference in the nation?

It can't be both equally. We're transitioning away from the "Rutgers prize" model but some of it is still clearly there or the Big Ten wouldn't have an east coast footprint because of two teams that don't have a big avid fan base.

It only matters if it fits their narrative. If it doesnt, then they say it doesnt matter anymore.

 

[Cyforce]

Im hoping for an East pairing with KU, KSt, Cincy and whoever else. Would be nice if it was Oklahoma State too but I dont think that will work out.

It's would be a bad look for the conference if 2 newcomers made the CCG. I'd like to see us remain oppo of Okie State.

 

[nwcat]

a few leaks starting to come out from BYU that the contract with the B12 is signed, but nothing official from BYU yet

BYU fans could not be more excited (and given we play Utah this weekend that's saying something)

 

[CascadeClone]

I don't see the big 12 wanting to make one division stretch 3 time zones. It will be a central/eastern vs Central/Mountain split.

8 pods of 2 teams each, rotating every leap year and every other presidential election. It was a done deal after the last round of non-enlargement.

 

[Itjustdoesn'tmatter]

You could make the east, east and the west, west and let go of the past

East Division:
UCF
WVU
UCin
ISU
UH
KU

West Division:
BYU
TT
TCU
BU
OSU
KSU

In theory... You could play 5 East games 2 West semi-annual games and two West annual games.

Have two annual Challenge games. So in this case ISU could pick KSU & BYU (for example) so we would play:

non-conference
non-conference
non-conference
TT or TCU
BU or OSU
KSU - Challenge game
BYU - Challenge game
UCF
WVU
UCin
UH
KU

If KSU want's to play both ISU and KU they could. (assuming KU picks them as one of their two)
On the same note, we don't have to pick KSU or BYU. We could pick anyone, as long as they pick us.

 

[mred]

I'm not sure if something like this has been posted yet, but for geographic reference here's a map of the Big 12 (post expansion and post OU/UT leaving): https://www.mapcustomizer.com/map/New-Big-12. It might help people get a good visual idea of where the schools are when thinking about scheduling/divisions.