I by no means want to replace him but I completely disagree with this line of thinking. I never want to accept "well we're ISU so this is as good as it gets program wise or success wise". I really dislike that line of thinking.
At what point do fans start to question CPR?
- Thread starter Palmer
- Start date
I by no means want to replace him but I completely disagree with this line of thinking. I never want to accept "well we're ISU so this is as good as it gets program wise or success wise". I really dislike that line of thinking.
I feel the same always expect better. Iowa has the same location and gets some great recruits, I don't think being in the Big 10 makes that much of a difference, especially given how terrible they have been the past few seasons. Same can be said of Kansas and Kansas St., if they can do it with their location it's possible to duplicate in Ames.
Should have been fired and wasn't which of course would have made the last ten years completely different (good or bad).
I don't question CPR as our head coaching from a coaching or recruiting perspective at all. I do think hiring Mess as OC was a mistake, given how poor his track record as an OC has been.
If we use 'vegas' as our expectations, we'll never question a coach unless he goes winless. Are you really that happy that we exceeded vegas's expectations by beating Tulsa and Iowa? 4 years in, a coach also bears responsibility for where the program is to where the expectations are at that level. We have a defense that can not only compete, but with even an average offense could have us in enough games to put up a good number of wins. If you don't expect better from our offense, then you're delusional. Any team's fans should expect better than near-bottom of college football performance, which is what we're getting.
You're saying 'we're so close'... the question is, is that accurate? If our offense was showing any sign of improvement, i might say yes. But its not just one piece of our offense that has major issues. We have issues on offense all around ranging from playcalling to QB to OL to WR. We don't seem to be showing any sign of improvement over 4 years either, so with no sign of improvement, how can we be 'so close' if there is no measurable improvement over the last few years.
I'm NOT saying to fire CPR. But no coach is perfect, and i love how some can't even stand that people are pointing out his negatives. Right now the list of positives is far greater than negatives, which is why he isn't remotely on the hot seat (nor should be be), but to pretend there aren't negatives to be found in the program is as asinine as calling for his job would be. And right now there is a glaring negative in the offensive performance in his first 4 years, which not only has been extremely poor, but more glaring is that it doesnt seem to be showing any sign of improvement.
When "execution" is the fault of a game, it is the players. When execution is the problem game after game, it IS the fault of coaching. when its a problem year after year, it is the fault of the system.
We fans have been complaining about lack of execution for four years now.
Case is closed in my book.
We fans have been complaining about lack of execution for four years now.
Case is closed in my book.
I question CPR right now. He's tied himself to an offensive scheme that has been woeful for 4 straight years. He's done little to modify it. He's hired an OC who is clearly in over his head.
CPR needs to make major changes this off season. Whether he does so or not, imo, will determine his success as coach.
CPR needs to make major changes this off season. Whether he does so or not, imo, will determine his success as coach.
+ 1. Other than bringing in a Juco QB, recruiting freshman to come into his system, and gotten a new OC, CPR hasn't done crap to change the offensive scheme.
Promoting an assistant from within an offensive system that has been failing isnt really 'getting a new OC'
It did provide 6, 5, and 6 regular season wins in three years, which hasn't happened very often at ISU. Last 3 year stretch like that was 2000-02, but those were years 6 through 8 under Mac.
Losing Tom Herman to Ohio St. (Urban Meyer was clearly impressed with the offense) did not help.
I don't have the stats, but I'd bet in November 2011, a lot of CF would have taken Mess over Herman.
Bill Snyder's start @ K-State:
| 1989 | Kansas State | 1–10 | 0–7 | 8th | |||
| 1990 | Kansas State | 5–6 | 2–5 | 6th | |||
| 1991 | Kansas State | 7–4 | 4–3 | 4th | |||
| 1992 | Kansas State | 5–6 | 2–5 | T–6th | |||
| 1993 | Kansas State | 9–2–1 | 4–2–1 | 3rd | W Copper | 18 | 20 |
| 1994 | Kansas State | 9–3 | 5–2 | 3rd | L Aloha | 16 | 19 |
| 1995 | Kansas State | 10–2 | 5–2 | T–2nd | W Holiday | 6 | 7 |
Have patience, people. The fact that we're not getting stomped in this league is pretty good. Would I like for us to win more games? Obviously. But I also remember (as a young kid) the painful early McCarney years. We have come back from irrelevance much more quickly and I have no doubt we will have a breakout year under CPR. If it's year 10 and we still haven't won more than 6-7 games, then we have to question what's going on. But there is no denying that we are at a significant disadvantage in many ways compared to our Big XII peers and that's why it's going to take a lot of time for us to get where we want to be. ISU is not a 1, 2, or even 3-year rebuilding type of program. Our recruiting will never be good enough for that. We must remain supportive and patient or we'll lose CPR to a program where it is much easier to find quick success.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
That's the idea of questioning decisions. There's nothing wrong with questioning our offensive hires right now. They might be the right guys, but not getting it done, or they might be the wrong guys altogether. Either way, hiring them is on him. It's fair to ask questions about it.
Asking if he's the guy for the job is where I think it goes too far, but I don't think that was the OP's plan, since he says that wasn't his plan. CPR is an outstanding coach, and he's earned a whole lot of benefit of the doubt. His offense hasn't earned much of that at all, if any.
I'm not saying that I question him as a head coacah, but I do question how he is handling this qb situation. IMO, the coaches had an entire year to work with either quaterback with what they needed to improve. They are showing minimal improvement from last year. As much as it pains me to say it, I wish he would put in one quarterback and stick with him. In the case of JB, I think mistakes he makes this year will help him grow and improve for the years to come. Yes, that might mean more mistakes, but that is really a learning process.
To go along with this, I think the constant carousel at qb does very little for their confidence. If I'm starting this game, I'm over-thinking because I know that if I make mistakes I'm getting pulled. I just feel like its a vicious cycle to have. Whether this is an issue of talent or lack of preparation, the only people that are responsible are the coaches.
To go along with this, I think the constant carousel at qb does very little for their confidence. If I'm starting this game, I'm over-thinking because I know that if I make mistakes I'm getting pulled. I just feel like its a vicious cycle to have. Whether this is an issue of talent or lack of preparation, the only people that are responsible are the coaches.
