The irony of being accused of living in a fantasy world by one of the original "its just the flu" crowd...it's just too good.
Coronavirus Coronavirus: In-Iowa General Discussion (Not Limited)
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The irony of being accused of living in a fantasy world by one of the original "its just the flu" crowd...it's just too good.
After having several days with lower numbers you have to think that we're going to see some higher death numbers as that ramp up in cases has now had the disease for a while.
Hopefully it's a one-off spike, but I think we are going to see a few days with high death numbers over the next few weeks. Between the packing plant outbreaks and things opening up more I think it is inevitable.
I've been reading most of this thread for the past few weeks and I don't think I've seen anyone complain that the peak is being delayed due to the restrictions.
Good stuff here.
RE: cleaning amount: I know any grocery shopping I've done, I've been way more inclined to go to the places after they've shown to take steps to make it safer, like hand sanitizer stations in the aisles, windows between customers and check out, etc. What are you doing to make sure I can at least have confidence in coming into your place?
I've actually also found a place to be more reliable if they're limiting certain items for purchase; I've found hand sanitizer and Lysol at a couple of places and I'll continue to go back because it's been there on multiple visits.
Here's my suggestions - some highlights, not a complete plan (I haven't seen a complete plan from the Governor either):
- Don't ease restrictions county-by-county. Do it by region or as a whole.
- Mandate masks/face covering for all stores that allow in customers
- Set clear benchmarks for measuring improvement that trigger next steps. Tie these to hospital usage instead of positive tests
- Ensure that there is enough PPE and testing. Establish broad contact tracing for all positive tests.
- Lead by example, especially in regards to mask usage and spacing.
- Be proactive about looking for and heading off future hot spots. Proactive testing and getting PPE to potential issue areas is a big part of that.
That's the basics off the top of my head
Agree, deaths are a harder thing to predict; at least on a curve type basis. I have a friend who has been fighting it since middle of March and in the hospital since end of march. Some people are gone in a couple days, some can fight for months until it finally does them in. Always felt hospitalizations is a better indication for how we are progressing on the curve.
8 weeks ago it was a need to Shelter in Place to "Flatten the Curve" so we do not overwhelm the health care system. That has been done pretty much across the country.
What is the new "goal" now if we are not opening up the economy? Are we trying to drive daily new cases and deaths to zero? That is not going to happen without out a complete shutdown / lock-down for 4-6 weeks and a complete destruction of the economy.
COVID-19 is going to run through society. How do we keep it at a relative slow burn until a vaccine is approved, herd immunity reached? People are going to get sick and some are going to die. We can open most things up responsibly with some precautions like social distancing, wearing a face covering / mask, washing hands, increased testing and contact tracing. The biggest imposition on people's rights out of those would be how contact tracing is done / enacted. Is it with a cell phone app that tracks proximity / duration next to other phones and that list can be accessed when someone tests positive?
I think that the majority of people understand that there is a new normal and that gatheriings with a lot of closely spaced people is not a good idea. But the vast majority of our day-to-day activities do not fall in that category. These things could be occuring with some new hygeine protocols with the understanding that individual locations / areas could be placed on shelter-in-place / quarintine to address hot spots.
What is the new "goal" now if we are not opening up the economy? Are we trying to drive daily new cases and deaths to zero? That is not going to happen without out a complete shutdown / lock-down for 4-6 weeks and a complete destruction of the economy.
COVID-19 is going to run through society. How do we keep it at a relative slow burn until a vaccine is approved, herd immunity reached? People are going to get sick and some are going to die. We can open most things up responsibly with some precautions like social distancing, wearing a face covering / mask, washing hands, increased testing and contact tracing. The biggest imposition on people's rights out of those would be how contact tracing is done / enacted. Is it with a cell phone app that tracks proximity / duration next to other phones and that list can be accessed when someone tests positive?
I think that the majority of people understand that there is a new normal and that gatheriings with a lot of closely spaced people is not a good idea. But the vast majority of our day-to-day activities do not fall in that category. These things could be occuring with some new hygeine protocols with the understanding that individual locations / areas could be placed on shelter-in-place / quarintine to address hot spots.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
There seems to be a mask embargo here in Ames.
But, again, we can attribute a lot of that to leaders who aren't doing, well, anything to build the case that people should be concerned, and nobody's doing that work to talk about sacrificing a little to help your neighbor, community, and all that. It's just left as something that isn't a major concern and stressed as individual decisions, so we see individuals acting in their selfish and unsafe ways.
There are lots of posts by people on the side of stricter restrictions that seemed to be complaining every time the model projection for the "peak" went longer and tying that to failures of the approach being taken in Iowa. Seems like I had lots of arguments with a few like that a few weeks back, the user with the Patriots handle comes to mind. However, I could have been misinterpreting their posts.
I only went to the Dr. because I figured I had strep and just wanted to get the antibiotics...I've had it a few times over the years. Also had a 102 fever for several days.
Went to the Dr. when I got home because my ears started getting bad on the plane ride. Double ear infections are unusual I think; they're more unusual for grown a** adults.
Still took roughly 3-4 weeks to get back to feeling normal.
This is an unacceptable way to view the problem because it doesn't take into account your prior opinions of the political officials who may be involved in the decision making, which is what this thread is about. You also do not seem to view everyone as a verified walking viral vector which is also a problem.
I think people are still overlooking the problem that many smaller businesses can't operate any better on reduced capacity (and income) than not operating at all. What's the resolution for that issue? We can open up whatever we want, but if their potential to make money is reduced and there is a large sect of the population actively avoiding such recreational activities, ... doesn't bode well for the bank account.
I am declaring myself officially immune. As a result I will be granted a key to all state park restrooms.
I guess you're just arguing for never inspecting anything ever then? I'm confused.
I agree that the physical things that can be done should be done. But I was reading a story out of Nevada last night about businesses, such as casinos, restaurants, etc, that can open at 50% capacity. So they have to actually remove slot machines, tables, salon chairs, etc and be able to store them somewhere. Plus a lot of the overhead, if not all of it, is still in place. So it’s a losing proposition. So they either have to remain closed and ride it out, or open up and slowly bleed to death. Not an easy decision to make. And I don’t know the answer.
I've posted this before, but the original IHME projection for the US has proven to be very accurate so far. The issue may be that going forward that we should be seeing a decline in deaths which looked like was starting to happen but the number of new cases may keep deaths from declining as expected.
Agree. I remember about a month or so ago I mentioned Fauci not wearing a mask. I had several people challenge me on that. I feel as a leader, you do what you expect those to do. I heard a couple days after that that a reporter asked him and he got snippy and said since he had been tested negative that he was fine. Well, that is a crap answer, anybody in the medical world knows that a test is only relevant for up to that time you were tested. You may get tested and then walk out the door, grab the handle and touch an area that someone coughed on and you are now infected and will pass it along. When you ask someone to do something, do it yourself in this situation.
I feel the Governor would get more traction by wearing one. It appears that outside of the sign lady, they do distancing when not at the mic. Needs to go the next step further, those mics can pick up what you say. Also, I have yet to see a reporter who follows her out of the presser have a mask on. I have not seen one in about a week (listened while working then) so maybe they have.
You do realize that it isnt like a storm, right? You don't just flatten the curve and then alll is good. You have to maintain that level, or the infection rate goes up and we're back where we started.
The curve isnt really all that 'flattened' either. Overall it may look it, but a lot of that is because NY is dropping after getting hit hard, but the rest of the US is still on an upward trend.
The only way we can move into some sort of 'more normal' is to have massively more testing and contact tracing than exists today. On the order of millions of tests per day. Unfortunately our federal government has little interest in making that happen.
John Oliver had a good segment on testing the other day
These plants are so critical to America that they require presidential orders to keep them open and yet they can't be bothered to take any steps whatsoever to prevent the spread of disease, nor can they be troubled with inspection. Crazy.
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