Reclassifying 4A football

[HGoat1]

Kinda interested to see what happens with Ames.

They aren't exactly in the same socioeconomic position as FD, Mason City, Ottumwa or Marshalltown. They benefit greatly from Iowa State being in Ames. At the same time, they have less than half of the enrollment as Valley, Waukee and some of the larger suburban Des Moines Schools.

 

[cycloner29]

Kinda interested to see what happens with Ames.

They aren't exactly in the same socioeconomic position as FD, Mason City, Ottumwa or Marshalltown. They benefit greatly from Iowa State being in Ames. At the same time, they have less than half of the enrollment as Valley, Waukee and some of the larger suburban Des Moines Schools.

Ames is one of the smaller schools now in 4A. Gilbert benefits more from Iowa State than Ames does. The way the district is divided up (there was a thread about school districts some time ago), all the new housing is growing north and thus Gilbert school is benefiting from it. Ames is getting a new high school here in a couple of years, but I have no idea if that will attract anymore students.

I have noticed that football numbers declining also. We had juniors play with the sophomore team last season and we got a notice that the varsity football practice schedule that just came out now in includes sophomores. Years past varsity was made up of juniors and seniors and 3-4 sophomores. This won't be the case this year.

 

[Antihawk240]

You really think these schools are turning down students and their tuition money and potential future donations to remain in lower sports classifications? I find this hard to believe. Particularly with the smaller private schools that your theory would apply to. I attended a small private high school and we would take about any student or donation we could get. Keeping the doors open, maintaining quality facilities, and offering strong academic opportunities trumps a full trophy case.

You are probably true, your issues are probably more common than I eluded. But what about the other private schools who have established themselves financially sound? Wahlert, Xaiver, Beckman, Don Bosco don't have the same financial problems your high school and others like it had. They financially have everything they want so they will remain in the same class and fill that freshly bought trophy case.

 

[scottwv]

There could be some merit in how Illinois does it: At the end of each football season, Illinois classifies football into 8 classes based on the enrollment of the schools that qualify for the post season play.

All other sports have at most 4 classifications.

Private schools have to move up one class in all sports.

 

[SoapyCy]

You are probably true, your issues are probably more common than I eluded. But what about the other private schools who have established themselves financially sound? Wahlert, Xaiver, Beckman, Don Bosco don't have the same financial problems your high school and others like it had. They financially have everything they want so they will remain in the same class and fill that freshly bought trophy case.

As I said in a different post, my dad is involved in development for our alma mater. Without a doubt, 99.9% of people would rather have a top-notch Academic School with a range of extracurriculars then find success on the athletic field. Athletics are the most external showcase a school has, so what happens inside its doors are probably not well knowing to non-students an alumni, so I think people put too much emphasis on athletic results as the end-all-be-all of why these schools exist.

A quick Google search will find this conversation has happened in a majority of States at some level. What that tells me is one of two things. One, that every Catholic School somehow recruits to the detriment of their financial situation, or two, there's something about the socio-economic factors of upper-middle-class people that result in athletic success.

Everybody at a private school wants to be there. Because they're paying for it, most families go above and beyond to ensure their child has a more than adequate time at the school. Whether this is marching band, Athletics, Science and Technology programs, Odyssey of the Mind, Etc. They generally do pretty well.

A public school, Apple Valley, won 23 out of 34 state wresting championships, including 10 in a row. Either that school and the alumni support the wrestling program to a considerable degree or people move to the district if their son is a good wrestler. Are you suggesting that something illegal or immoral is afoot because of their athletic success?

 

[Gunnerclone]

Newton was in the division with Valley, Ames, marshalltown, MC and FD before waukee replaced then

Going to Newton for away football games was always an experience.

 

[HGoat1]

Going to Newton for away football games was always an experience.

One time when we played in Fort Dodge in HS, one of their players got arrested and taken out of the locker room in handcuffs during halftime. I am not joking.

 

[Antihawk240]

As I said in a different post, my dad is involved in development for our alma mater. Without a doubt, 99.9% of people would rather have a top-notch Academic School with a range of extracurriculars then find success on the athletic field. Athletics are the most external showcase a school has, so what happens inside its doors are probably not well knowing to non-students an alumni, so I think people put too much emphasis on athletic results as the end-all-be-all of why these schools exist.

A quick Google search will find this conversation has happened in a majority of States at some level. What that tells me is one of two things. One, that every Catholic School somehow recruits to the detriment of their financial situation, or two, there's something about the socio-economic factors of upper-middle-class people that result in athletic success.

Everybody at a private school wants to be there. Because they're paying for it, most families go above and beyond to ensure their child has a more than adequate time at the school. Whether this is marching band, Athletics, Science and Technology programs, Odyssey of the Mind, Etc. They generally do pretty well.

A public school, Apple Valley, won 23 out of 34 state wresting championships, including 10 in a row. Either that school and the alumni support the wrestling program to a considerable degree or people move to the district if their son is a good wrestler. Are you suggesting that something illegal or immoral is afoot because of their athletic success?

Absolutely not. Culture is the #1 driving factor. What I am saying is Wahlert, Xavier, Beckman, Don Bosco have everything you just stated above and also hold the ability to keep themselves at the Class Size they are already at. Nothing afoot at all, but they have academic success along with athletic success and the keys to keep everything normal. Don Bosco goes to 2A because every wrestler and football player in the area wants to go there for their academic success as well as a state championship? They won't let it happen. That is what I am saying.

 

[cyhiphopp]

As I said in a different post, my dad is involved in development for our alma mater. Without a doubt, 99.9% of people would rather have a top-notch Academic School with a range of extracurriculars then find success on the athletic field. Athletics are the most external showcase a school has, so what happens inside its doors are probably not well knowing to non-students an alumni, so I think people put too much emphasis on athletic results as the end-all-be-all of why these schools exist.

A quick Google search will find this conversation has happened in a majority of States at some level. What that tells me is one of two things. One, that every Catholic School somehow recruits to the detriment of their financial situation, or two, there's something about the socio-economic factors of upper-middle-class people that result in athletic success.

Everybody at a private school wants to be there. Because they're paying for it, most families go above and beyond to ensure their child has a more than adequate time at the school. Whether this is marching band, Athletics, Science and Technology programs, Odyssey of the Mind, Etc. They generally do pretty well.

A public school, Apple Valley, won 23 out of 34 state wresting championships, including 10 in a row. Either that school and the alumni support the wrestling program to a considerable degree or people move to the district if their son is a good wrestler. Are you suggesting that something illegal or immoral is afoot because of their athletic success?

So if they care that much and are that successful, why would they not be willing to challenge themselves in a higher division?


Making this about the size of the school makes little sense when a large 3A school will beat the crap out of an inner city 4A school that can't even get a full team to show up.

They can use school size as a starting point if they want, but they need to move schools around based on their success or failure at that level.

 

[IASTATE07]

Many private schools are closing due to lack of enrollment. And new private schools that open up, like Providence Academy in the Twin Cities, are opening an extremely wealthy suburbs.
I am most familiar with the Twin Cities, but in Saint Paul two Catholic high schoolsmerged into one, another Catholic high school closed down, and another one is full of low socio-economic students and is terrible at sports. So four Catholic high schools are now two and the rich one is good at sports while the poor one is bad.

In good neighborhoods future enrollment can be estimated. I think many of you underestimate just how hard it is to staff for changes in enrollment. Private schools generally don't care about sports when hiring teachers, providing adequate facilities, and the like. You get X students per year and deal with it.

For all the people who "know" recruiting is going on, why don't you take a look at the elementary schools the varsity players went to.

I take it you weren't good at sports.

 

[Statefan10]

Many private schools are closing due to lack of enrollment. And new private schools that open up, like Providence Academy in the Twin Cities, are opening an extremely wealthy suburbs.
I am most familiar with the Twin Cities, but in Saint Paul two Catholic high schoolsmerged into one, another Catholic high school closed down, and another one is full of low socio-economic students and is terrible at sports. So four Catholic high schools are now two and the rich one is good at sports while the poor one is bad.

In good neighborhoods future enrollment can be estimated. I think many of you underestimate just how hard it is to staff for changes in enrollment. Private schools generally don't care about sports when hiring teachers, providing adequate facilities, and the like. You get X students per year and deal with it.

For all the people who "know" recruiting is going on, why don't you take a look at the elementary schools the varsity players went to.

When I was in middle school we were constantly playing travel basketball teams from the CR area and come high school, some of those kids that were not on Xavier before were now there. I'm not saying they're getting every single good kid, but they're still pulling a few here and there which certainly helps. The same thing happened when my little brother was in high school as well.

 

[SoapyCy]

When I was in middle school we were constantly playing travel basketball teams from the CR area and come high school, some of those kids that were not on Xavier before were now there. I'm not saying they're getting every single good kid, but they're still pulling a few here and there which certainly helps. The same thing happened when my little brother was in high school as well.

Maybe their parents wanted to send them to a school with better academics, higher high school graduation rate, and a generally safe environment. Why is the default that any good athlete that happens to go to a Catholic school is recruited.

 

[Statefan10]

Maybe their parents wanted to send them to a school with better academics, higher high school graduation rate, and a generally safe environment. Why is the default that any good athlete that happens to go to a Catholic school is recruited.

Because when that Catholic school wins multiple state championships in the same years that those multiple kids transfer to the school, there's certainly cause for speculation of recruiting.

 

[SoapyCy]

Because when that Catholic school wins multiple state championships in the same years that those multiple kids transfer to the school, there's certainly cause for speculation of recruiting.

What specific students in school are you talking about. I'm also going to assume any school that has open enrollment that won a state championship is in the same boat.

 

[Statefan10]

What specific students in school are you talking about. I'm also going to assume any school that has open enrollment that won a state championship is in the same boat.

I'm not going to name any names or what school because this has happened at multiple schools and I'm not going to single anyone or any school out because it's not their fault it's the system's fault.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

You really think these schools are turning down students and their tuition money and potential future donations to remain in lower sports classifications? I find this hard to believe. Particularly with the smaller private schools that your theory would apply to. I attended a small private high school and we would take about any student or donation we could get. Keeping the doors open, maintaining quality facilities, and offering strong academic opportunities trumps a full trophy case.

Yes, those schools absolutely cap their enrollment.

 

[cyhiphopp]

Quit arguing about recruiting. It probably happens more than mtown would think and less than everyone else thinks.

Agree to disagree.

Even without blatant recruiting, a lot of private schools punch well about their enrollment weight.

The divisions should be more about level of competition than just base enrollment. Hoover shouldn't have to get their ass kicked by Dowling JV.

 

[VeloClone]

Quit arguing about recruiting. It probably happens more than mtown would think and less than everyone else thinks.

Agree to disagree.

Even without blatant recruiting, a lot of private schools punch well about their enrollment weight.

The divisions should be more about level of competition than just base enrollment. Hoover shouldn't have to get their ass kicked by Dowling JV.

I can live with that. But is there going to be a huge outcry when a program like Applington-Parkersburg creates a dynasty and they appear to be punished for it?

 

[clonedude]

Maybe their parents wanted to send them to a school with better academics, higher high school graduation rate, and a generally safe environment. Why is the default that any good athlete that happens to go to a Catholic school is recruited.

Catholic schools academics are vastly overrated due to the fact they don't have hardly any poor kids, mentally handicapped kids, etc, etc, etc that bring down their overall achievement scores. It also drastically helps their graduation rates as well. But you knew that, right?

People want to put their kids in private schools because they don't have to deal with the "riff raff" that are in the public schools. You know.... the underprivileged, the minority's, the single parent kids, etc. That's mostly what it's about.

You can get just as good of an education at any of the public high schools in CR as you can at Xavier without question. It's all a matter of what the kid puts into it.

 

[VeloClone]

Catholic schools academics are vastly overrated due to the fact they don't have hardly any poor kids, mentally handicapped kids, etc, etc, etc that bring down their overall achievement scores. It also drastically helps their graduation rates as well. But you knew that, right?

People want to put their kids in private schools because they don't have to deal with the "riff raff" that are in the public schools. You know.... the underprivileged, the minority's, the single parent kids, etc. That's mostly what it's about.

You can get just as good of an education at any of the public high schools in CR as you can at Xavier without question. It's all a matter of what the kid puts into it.

There are some parents that are about that. There are also a good deal more parents who are doing if for other reasons - like to make sure their kids learn about their religion side by side with all of the other academics. So please stop slamming every parent of a private school kid. You don't know what you are talking about and you are being an ass.