For Cowboy fans chirping about the spot on their final play

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Peter

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Feb 21, 2010
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Spot was accurate. Moreover I specifically remember scoring on them one year and it got called back to a bad spot so yeah cry more cowboys.
 

CYme

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Dec 6, 2011
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Spot was accurate. Moreover I specifically remember scoring on them one year and it got called back to a bad spot so yeah cry more cowboys.
I was looking for the picture I remember of that play, showing the ball clearly across the goal line. Someone drew a bump out of the goal line.
 
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VeloClone

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Jan 19, 2010
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It’s a dumb rule, when the ball is considered thrown out of the endzone it negates those. Not 100% firm on the exact rule but is around that area.
Uncatchable balls negate pass interference but have no bearing on defensive holding as far as I know. The ball doesn't even have to be passed for there to be defensive holding, just holding. It doesn't even have to be an eligible receiver that is being held. Sometimes they will call it on a defensive lineman who is holding an O lineman so that he can't get to the second level to block a linebacker.
 
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t-noah

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Feb 2, 2007
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Moot point. Should have been a penalty on the OSU lineman for pulling the ballcarrier forward. Iowa State declines, game over. Very simple.

Totally agree. Even with out the flag being thrown, in review, once the lineman starts to pull his player forward, the play stops there. It is not legal to advance a player by pulling them. They can not assess the penalty in review, but can make the correct call by spotting the ball before the player was pulled. The player was only beyond the 1st down marker due to an illegal act.
Agree with the pulling of the player. I just know we would be complaining if the reverse happened. It's the nature of not wanting the team you follow to lose.
It was funny to hear Gundy talking in the press conference about how he thought they got the first down when number 51 pulled him across the line to gain. It's like he had no idea about the rules.
But. He wasn't by it. His helmet was. Not the ball.
I mean, they even reviewed it and upheld it.

The far side official originally marked it a good half yard short of where they ended up spotting it. So they decided to give a little more benefit of the doubt on the spot, and still wasn't enough.
I just reviewed the play. He was definitely hit by Young, et al and stopped short. Immediately the runner was grabbed by OkieState's #51 (LG or LT) and they both rolled forward getting "close" to line of gain.

I think the only thing debatable is where the spot should have been after the full "pull" by #51. You could make the point he might have been across with the final pull, barely. Or that the spot was a slight "compromise" with a little bit of the pull allowed.

I think the spot was more than fair considering he was pulled along. In reality, if the rule is against the pulling of a player by another player of the same team, then the spot shouldn't have even been that close. It was a fair spot considering, and the right call. They did NOT make the 1st down.

ALSO: In the clip of that play, I see Mike Rose in on the last defensive plays and playing hard. His R arm is wrapped in tape from just above the elbow to about the wrist/hand. SO... If it was more of a serious injury to Rose I don't think he would be playing. I interpret this as very good news! Forgive if already mentioned elsewhere. GO CYCLONES!!
 
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VeloClone

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it was brilliant by OSU and a total screwup by our coaches
Frankly, I'm surprised that more coaches don't take advantage of this weakness in the current rules. You see it once in a while, but you should see it about half the time when the offense makes a late substitution - especially by a defense that substitutes liberally like the ISU defense.
 
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clonehome

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Jul 29, 2006
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Suppose their lineman successfully pulled the ball carrier across the line to gain before he is tackled, and the ref throws a flag for the infraction. Would they spot the ball at the end of the run if we decline the penalty? I think the answer is yes. Consider a holding call on a long touch down run. TD stands if coach declines the penalty.

I think we would have to accept, setting up 4th and 7 for OSU.

H
I don’t think so because they’re not going to give them the additional yards from the player being pulled. The ball would be spotted where the runner’s progress was stopped before the pull, so we decline the penalty.
 
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Blandboy

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Mar 31, 2006
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Purdy also got horse-collar sacked (not called) in the first half for that a big loss and ensuing Okie State drive for points. Should've been an ISU first down. There were also plenty of other questionable ball spots and holding no-calls. The biggest miss-call was the unsportsmanlike call on X. That was totally bogus. But it got us fans into the game, which definitely became a factor.
 
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Blandboy

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We lost to them in 2017 when the officials gave a jump ball in the end zone to the defense on our last drive. It effectively ended our shot at a conference championship.

That was ruled a dual-possession which they gave to OSU as an interception. Horrible call.
I was there.
 
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cyrocksmypants

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Dec 29, 2008
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Uncatchable balls negate pass interference but have no bearing on defensive holding as far as I know. The ball doesn't even have to be passed for there to be defensive holding, just holding. It doesn't even have to be an eligible receiver that is being held. Sometimes they will call it on a defensive lineman who is holding an O lineman so that he can't get to the second level to block a linebacker.
I mean, by definition defensive holding happens before the pass is thrown.
 

Cydwinder

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Okie Lite did that yesterday causing ISU to call a time out. Trotted on a lineman when they already had 11 players out there with no intention of a player coming off the field.
This was my biggest problem with the second sub in particular. It wasn’t a legitimate attempt at a sub at all.
 

knowlesjam

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Oct 21, 2012
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This was my biggest problem with the second sub in particular. It wasn’t a legitimate attempt at a sub at all.
But absolutely within the rules and spot on by Gundy to take advantage of and get us to burn a timeout. I don't recall a game this season where we had so many late substitutions, 12 dudes on the field, etc. Hell, there was one play after a timeout where 12 guys went back out...they caught it at the last moment and he ran off the field. Things just seemed off in the game on player management...glad it didn't bite us in the end.

Heck, I'd have some assistant watching the opposing teams offense and if they subbed late, send a player in and make them burn a TO...
 

cycfan1

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Nov 27, 2006
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This was my biggest problem with the second sub in particular. It wasn’t a legitimate attempt at a sub at all.

Is there a reasonable speed requirement for the sub? IE - can he walk on the field and ref has to hold the play until he gets there? Have wondered this bit in the past. Great coaching by Okie St, but a loophole in the rule that needs fixed.
 

charlie_B

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Purdy also got horse-collar sacked (not called) in the first half for that a big loss and ensuing Okie State drive for points. Should've been an ISU first down. There were also plenty of other questionable ball spots and holding no-calls. The biggest miss-call was the unsportsmanlike call on X. That was totally bogus. But it got us fans into the game, which definitely became a factor.
I don't exactly remember this, but if he was in the pocket, you can horse-collar sack the QB.
 

BillBrasky4Cy

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IF they ever changed the rule that you can no longer advance a player by pushing them, Iowa would never get a first down on 3rd and short again:p:p

I freakin love that QB sneak formation/play Iowa runs I honestly don't know why more schools don't do the exact same thing. Iowa's been doing it for the last 5 years or so with an average line too.
 

IcSyU

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Is there a reasonable speed requirement for the sub? IE - can he walk on the field and ref has to hold the play until he gets there? Have wondered this bit in the past. Great coaching by Okie St, but a loophole in the rule that needs fixed.
I assume it's at referee discretion to give "reasonable" accommodations. If you did just walk onto the field they may assess a delay of game penalty.
 

BillBrasky4Cy

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We just have to stop the late substitutions. It's really our fault. Yes, OSU slow played the substitution, which caused us to burn a time out, but OSU didn't do anything that most teams wouldn't do. If we don't make late substitutions, this won't happen.

Agree, this is 100% on Manning. Outside of these two plays, one thing that really frustrated me on Saturday was that we were rotating personnel on every single play. Between the plays getting called ion late and all of the subs I felt like we were scrambling a lot to get plays off. It's OK to run a few plays in a row with the same package. At some point Manning's refusal to play with tempo is going to cost us another game.
 
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