Vehicle reliability - best make/models?

[cyfan92]

The Honda Odyssey that several posts have mentioned is actually one of the top 10 "most American " cars made today. It is built here and way over 50% of of it's composition is USA sourced.

Honda really doesn't import many cars to the US and Toyota imports around 50%. Same for VW, Mercedes and BMW. On the flip side, several US brands are made in Mexico or even Asia and imported.

I have been in automotive manufacturing Quality for a decade and I drive an Acura with a J vin, which means it was actually built in Japan. I drove an Ohio made Honda for almost 20 years also.

I would never purchase any Kia or a Hyundai based on knowledge of components, but you could say that about at least a few models from every manufacturer. Toyota just makes beyond boring vehicles. Overall quality is good though.

Based off of intimate knowledge of Tesla's parts and manufacturing practices, I can say without a doubt that they are garbage. Some cool technology, but as other more established car companies catch up and pass them they will probably be left in the dust.

Just bought a 2020 Odyssey. It's more quiet, has a lot more room and gets better mileage then every 3 row suv. Haven't tested the snow mode yet. But I live in suburbia where all the roads are plowed anyway. Making AWD a waste of mpg.

We test drove everything this spring and I'll say this. The Highlander pre 2020 model left a lot to be desired. Most boring vehicle in it's class.

 

[Cyfan1965]

We have had two Honda mini vans and 4 transmissions. We must have got lemons each time. Only paid for one transmission to be replaced but that was enough. Strange because Civics and Accords run forever-

 

[cyfan92]

We have had two Honda mini vans and 4 transmissions. We must have got lemons each time. Only paid for one transmission to be replaced but that was enough. Strange because Civics and Accords run forever-

What year's?

 

[Cyfan1965]

What year's?

1999 and 2004 we knew about the 2004 oil line they ran to lubricate the transmission. That was done it blew up anyway-

 

[VeloClone]

Sort of. I got my first car when I was 16, it was a total shitter. I think I blew the transmission so we got rid of it. At 17, I got an Infiniti. That car lasted me a year before another blown transmission and other issues emerged. I thought I was going to have my 3rd car for a while, but my grandma offered her car since she was getting a new one. So in 5 years, I've had 4 different cars.

Two blown trannies in two years? You may want to look carefully at how you are driving.

 

[Macloney]

I'm honestly confused by the point you're trying to make in this thread to be honest. You say Hyundai parts a cheap. Cheap compared to what? If you want to tell me they are cheap compared to an Acura, well I effing hope so, because the Acura is going to cost double the amount of a Hyundai. If it's cheap compared to a base model Toyota or Ford, well I'd be surprised.

Okay, a base Accord and a base Sonata are within a few hundred dollars of each other. Both are made in non-union shops in the US, so I would assume that labor costs are similar. There are several factors that go into pricing a vehicle that I won't even pretend to know about. I do know a large amount about electrical components, interior trim and a large number of chassis components. I also have a large amount of knowledge of each manufacturer's production processes. Based on those factors I am saying that Honda has to have more inherent costs per car. Does that make a better car? That is where opinion comes in. My opinion is yes. The only parts that all of these companies make are frames, body panels, engines and transmissions and some of those are sourced. All other parts and sometimes some of those are sourced and there are only so many sources.

Like I said, they all make good cars, but some are better than others. This is what I do for a living and my opinion isn't any better than anyone else's. I was just saying that I may be using different data to drive my opinion than other people.

Also, the powertrain warranty is like cheap insurance for a manufacturer. Very few cars ever have these issues so it is an easy marketing tool because the actual number of cars that have these issues is fractional. Bumper to bumper would actually get my attention, but those are few and far between.

 

[BryceC]

Okay, a base Accord and a base Sonata are within a few hundred dollars of each other. Both are made in non-union shops in the US, so I would assume that labor costs are similar. There are several factors that go into pricing a vehicle that I won't even pretend to know about. I do know a large amount about electrical components, interior trim and a large number of chassis components. I also have a large amount of knowledge of each manufacturer's production processes. Based on those factors I am saying that Honda has to have more inherent costs per car. Does that make a better car? That is where opinion comes in. My opinion is yes. The only parts that all of these companies make are frames, body panels, engines and transmissions and some of those are sourced. All other parts and sometimes some of those are sourced and there are only so many sources.

Like I said, they all make good cars, but some are better than others. This is what I do for a living and my opinion isn't any better than anyone else's. I was just saying that I may be using different data to drive my opinion than other people.

Also, the powertrain warranty is like cheap insurance for a manufacturer. Very few cars ever have these issues so it is an easy marketing tool because the actual number of cars that have these issues is fractional. Bumper to bumper would actually get my attention, but those are few and far between.

Agree with you on powertrain warranties. That's just not a concern for me, that's a marketing thing.

I appreciate your input, I honestly don't know.

 

[Lineup]

ACURA

 

[simply1]

side note this is interesting

Reuters | Breaking International News & Views

Find latest news from every corner of the globe at Reuters.com, your online source for breaking international news coverage.

in.reuters.com

 

[Neptune78]

Not true at all, different trim levels and even recipes within those trim levels have different parts.

You have to trust me on this one. I work at a GM plant.

I trust someone who works in the industry vs. the average CF 'expert'.
I love my GMC pick-up and Cadillac sedan. Does today's quality of these two badges warrant buying them again?

 

[Macloney]

I trust someone who works in the industry vs. the average CF 'expert'.
I love my GMC pick-up and Cadillac sedan. Does today's quality of these two badges warrant buying them again?

Like I mentioned, everyone is making good cars these days, but Cadillac and GMC are built using better components than most manufacturers and more expensive components than most other GM vehicles. Both are made using solid manufacturing processes and a bad GMC or Cadillac is truly the exception and not the rule. As mentioned before, avoid the first year of a model change and you should be good.

I really like the Cadillac XT6 as a much better value than the new Escalade. You get a size that is more than enough for most people (it's only 5 inches shorter than the Esc), 310 hp standard and every model comes loaded. Throw in that it's at least 20-30k cheaper and I think it's a winner.

GM makes really good vehicles once you get past economy models and I would recommend anything they make. Full disclosure, the GM plant I work at doesn't make the XT6, but I have a friend who has one and it is extremely nice.

 

[Neptune78]

Like I mentioned, everyone is making good cars these days, but Cadillac and GMC are built using better components than most manufacturers and more expensive components than most other GM vehicles. Both are made using solid manufacturing processes and a bad GMC or Cadillac is truly the exception and not the rule. As mentioned before, avoid the first year of a model change and you should be good.

I really like the Cadillac XT6 as a much better value than the new Escalade. You get a size that is more than enough for most people (it's only 5 inches shorter than the Esc), 310 hp standard and every model comes loaded. Throw in that it's at least 20-30k cheaper and I think it's a winner.

GM makes really good vehicles once you get past economy models and I would recommend anything they make. Full disclosure, the GM plant I work at doesn't make the XT6, but I have a friend who has one and it is extremely nice.

Thanks. Any truth to the rumor that Cadillac is bringing back the XLR? That would be my next choice, but the wife likes the CT6 type sedans.

 

[Macloney]

Thanks. Any truth to the rumor that Cadillac is bringing back the XLR? That would be my next choice, but the wife likes the CT6 type sedans.

I have only seen internet rumors and think it's a long shot after the Vette's move to a mid-engine.

Unfortunately, cars are really out of favor right now and I think that we are seeing most development going into EV's and particularly SUV EV's like the Cadillac Lyric, seen below. I say unfortunately because I personally hate SUV's, especially crossovers. I am a car guy.

 

[nfrine]

Has GM done anything to address body rust? Based on what I have seen at body shops, GM is not good.

 

[motorcy90]

Like I mentioned, everyone is making good cars these days, but Cadillac and GMC are built using better components than most manufacturers and more expensive components than most other GM vehicles. Both are made using solid manufacturing processes and a bad GMC or Cadillac is truly the exception and not the rule. As mentioned before, avoid the first year of a model change and you should be good.

I really like the Cadillac XT6 as a much better value than the new Escalade. You get a size that is more than enough for most people (it's only 5 inches shorter than the Esc), 310 hp standard and every model comes loaded. Throw in that it's at least 20-30k cheaper and I think it's a winner.

GM makes really good vehicles once you get past economy models and I would recommend anything they make. Full disclosure, the GM plant I work at doesn't make the XT6, but I have a friend who has one and it is extremely nice.

GMCs are literally just a reskinned Chevy... there's no difference in the trucks besides the few trim pieces/badges they literally swap right over.. and Bad GMC?? you might want to go check the model facebook pages filled with issues.. hell my future mother in-law can't wait to get rid of her current Acadia this spring after having 3 others prior..

 

[Macloney]

GMCs are literally just a reskinned Chevy... there's no difference in the trucks besides the few trim pieces/badges they literally swap right over.. and Bad GMC?? you might want to go check the model facebook pages filled with issues.. hell my future mother in-law can't wait to get rid of her current Acadia this spring after having 3 others prior..

One more time. A GMC costs more than a Chevy because it uses more expensive parts.

A Silverado and a Sierra are built on the same chassis and share most power train parts, sure. Most of the trim is different and the electrical components are different.

One of the first questions I had for a seasoned QE in the first GM plant I ever went to was are vehicles like that really different or are they the same vehicle that is just re-badged as you seem to know they are? He answered that they are similar, but different. His simple answer was that the more expensive make used more expensive parts.

Since you are an expert, how many radio options are there in a Sierra vs. Silverado, door pads, door wiring harnesses, instrument panels? They should be one for one, right? (They aren't)

The idea of a GMC being a "reskinned" Chevy is ridiculous, but I can at least understand how someone who knows nothing about it could actually think that.

And I don't check Facebook for anything, especially things that I want facts about.

All I have been trying to do is share my knowledge from a decade of being in automotive quality and currently working in a GM plant. I think people should buy what they like and what they can afford. I don't even drive a GM and really have no skin in the game.

 

[motorcy90]

One more time. A GMC costs more than a Chevy because it uses more expensive parts.

A Silverado and a Sierra are built on the same chassis and share most power train parts, sure. Most of the trim is different and the electrical components are different.

One of the first questions I had for a seasoned QE in the first GM plant I ever went to was are vehicles like that really different or are they the same vehicle that is just re-badged as you seem to know they are? He answered that they are similar, but different. His simple answer was that the more expensive make used more expensive parts.

Since you are an expert, how many radio options are there in a Sierra vs. Silverado, door pads, door wiring harnesses, instrument panels? They should be one for one, right? (They aren't)

The idea of a GMC being a "reskinned" Chevy is ridiculous, but I can at least understand how someone who knows nothing about it could actually think that.

And I don't check Facebook for anything, especially things that I want facts about.

All I have been trying to do is share my knowledge from a decade of being in automotive quality and currently working in a GM plant. I think people should buy what they like and what they can afford. I don't even drive a GM and really have no skin in the game.

continue please...... I mean the GMC does have a bit more stock chrome... that's about it..

 

[besserheimerphat]

continue please...... I mean the GMC does have a bit more stock chrome... that's about it..
View attachment 77794 View attachment 77796

He told you they cost different amounts and you confirmed that they do, in fact, cost different amounts. And the GMC is, in fact, more expensive. You are proving his point.

At the production scale of the Big 3, the unit price differences are small but it means huge differences in total cost of production. A part that is much higher quality may only cost an extra quarter per part, but when you're building 2 million it makes a hell of a difference. Multiply that by 100 components and it gets way more expensive to build out a whole model year even though the unit difference is only $1500 on the base model. And, of course, good luck actually finding one that is a base model without any add-ons.

 

[motorcy90]

He told you they cost different amounts and you confirmed that they do, in fact, cost different amounts. And the GMC is, in fact, more expensive. You are proving his point.

At the production scale of the Big 3, the unit price differences are small but it means huge differences in total cost of production. A part that is much higher quality may only cost an extra quarter per part, but when you're building 2 million it makes a hell of a difference. Multiply that by 100 components and it gets way more expensive to build out a whole model year even though the unit difference is only $1500 on the base model. And, of course, good luck actually finding one that is a base model without any add-ons.

Go look at the base models.. the only difference is the GMC has chrome trim.. compared to the black plastic on the chevy. Every other part besides trim work is the exact same thing.... they are literally built on the same lines even..

 

[besserheimerphat]

Go look at the base models.. the only difference is the GMC has chrome trim.. compared to the black plastic on the chevy. Every other part besides trim work is the exact same thing.... they are literally built on the same lines even..

I work for the company that owns Kenworth and Peterbilt. Each of those brands makes a half dozen very different models on a single assembly line. Different engines, transmissions, cabs, interiors, frames, etc all on a single line. This isn't Ford Model Ts and "you can have whatever color you want as long as its black" anymore.