In reality, what is the ISU Basketball program?

[Cycl1]

I think that success had gotten to both the heads of the team, and the fans. We both seem quick to forget the struggle and difficulty of the conference and it's opponents due to recent triumphs, and agree that we now are getting opposing teams and fans best shots. We are no longer overlooked, and having to bring that kind of mentality to the game every week is not something ISU is used to. We were starting to peak at the right time. We still have a shot at 1st place.

 

[isu81]

In person on the whole neither kstate fans or Iowa State fans act half as obnoxiously arrogant as Iowa or KU fans. We are style generally a pretty humble bunch.

Great post, tigerclone. I think it's pretty natural for a fan base to get carried away when they start achieving a level of success they haven't before, at least for a long time. And with the guy we have leading the way, there is a lot of basis for believing we can continue to get better and knock on the doors of the nation's elite teams, where annual Elite 8 or better and conference championships can become expectations and regularly accomplished.

But the post highlighted above illustrates my bigger beef with our fan base. We can never have a discussion around here on any topic without bringing in Iowa and KU. It is a huge pet peeve of mine. I stay away from the obvious posts because I know there will be a lot of drooling, but it seems I can't open a post on any topic without it being brought in. Fred's leaving rumor (ha ha, fake tweet about Fran), updates on Diallo turned in to bashing Iowa and KU. I go to many other team's boards, including Iowa and KU. There is almost never anything about Iowa State on those boards, unless the original topic was directed at us.

I think as a basketball program we can get there. I wonder about us as a fan base. And I know we have the extremists on message boards, but so do those programs. Act like you've been there or at least have reason to think you can. We're better than what we show on these boards.

Sorry for injecting this in to this post-I thought it was relevant to the topic.

 

[wonkadog]

I would agree that we are an arriving program. We are the best program in the state, one of the best 3-4 teams in the country's toughest conference, but we still have to work to do to be in the national conversation. I don't think Fred is where he wants the team to be, but is on track in getting there. The Final Four discussions in pre-season were 'Hawk-like" and I never agreed with it. Let's get to the Elite 8 first.
I don't know about the 'air of superiority'. No doubt we have great fans who love the program, but I don't see us going off on legit top teams or their coaches.

Whatever. They were appropriate and still are. Final Four talk coming out of Iowa City from a team that hadn't even made the tournament regularly in recent years is a different story.

 

[CycloneErik]

I think most people have a realistic view of what's going on. You are hearing the vocal minority when good and bad happens and we overhype a win and overdramatize a loss. Is it bad that the first thing I thought of when we lost was how I had to stay away from CF for the rest of the night because of all the idiots who'd be losing their minds on her.

I only hear the overreactions here, or from 2 people around the office. Everyone else can deal with excitement and disappointment pretty well.

 

[CTTB78]

Whatever. They were appropriate and still are. Final Four talk coming out of Iowa City from a team that hadn't even made the tournament regularly in recent years is a different story.

There a lot of teams that make the 'tournament regularly' and are never in the Final Four discussion, nor should they be. After we make the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 regularly, then pre-season Final Four discussions are warranted.

 

[BeneventiCy28]

Big shout-out to tigerclone for this thread. We are very good, but not great yet. We have a VERY talented coach, but he's 5 years into coaching (that's a gift in itself). No team wins every game, so in basketball it isn't about losing, it's about responding after losing. So far this team has done well with that.

We are blessed to have the situation we have and I am so happy to be a Cyclone fan and wouldn't change for anything. With that, we still haven't gotten a true blue chip recruit (I know we are transfer U and everything), but that could change after this year. I think when Fred gets a player who is fresh out of high school with elite skills and a raw game, I think that could be the missing link. It's hard to reshape a basketball player who is a 23-24 y.o. senior. Get someone who is 18-19, Fred could do wonders.

We're a young program to success. If people think this is the best it's going to get, they're wrong, and that is the most exciting part of all.

 

[CyJack13]

There a lot of teams that make the 'tournament regularly' and are never in the Final Four discussion, nor should they be. After we make the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 regularly, then pre-season Final Four discussions are warranted.

Who cares if people talk about going to the final four? Is it bad thing that fans are excited about the program? We started the season ranked in the top 15, if you're anywhere near the top 10 I have no problem with people talking about the final four. It's the goal for a lot of teams out there.

 

[Trice]

This team has some shortcomings. I think that is an indisputable fact. Haven't thought we were top 10 quality all year. We are a solid top 20 team though. I will take that every single year.

No you won't. And that's not a knock on you personally, it's just human nature. If we're top 20 every year but never or rarely compete for the Big 12 title, or make a couple of Sweet 16s but never break through to the Elite Eight, people will get bored/restless. Because our expectations have been readjusted and we'll want better.

Look no further than Iowa football. Ferentz put together the single best run in Iowa history and within a few years later, they wanted him gone, an annual rite that has continued since.

 

[sn95gt50]

Interesting thread

Reminds me of my golf game. When I started golfing, I would get excited every time I got a good shot or a good hole. When I got better I expected the good shot or hole and anything less torqued me off.

Trice made a good point in post #28...

 

[cyclones500]

For the most part, ISU fans are realistic, humble and are generally happy with exciting teams and have modest expectations. We have bipolarity when hopes become elevated and things don't always go our way, but that's sports.

An extra element for Iowa State fans is, a heightened level of success (a "noticeable outlier season," shall we say) doesn't come all that often, so when it does, we want to milk it for all it's worth, because either a rug will be pulled out (see '01 MBB, '02/04/05 football, as examples) or there could be years of stagnation between high points (numerous examples).

I could extend the thought further, but others can build on that, if you see where I'm going.

 

[Cycl1]

No you won't. And that's not a knock on you personally, it's just human nature. If we're top 20 every year but never or rarely compete for the Big 12 title, or make a couple of Sweet 16s but never break through to the Elite Eight, people will get bored/restless. Because our expectations have been readjusted and we'll want better.

Look no further than Iowa football. Ferentz put together the single best run in Iowa history and within a few years later, they wanted him gone, an annual rite that has continued since.

Same with nebraska football. It seems crazy to fire a coach who is averaging 9 wins to us because we don't, but at some point you want to improve.

 

[Dingus]

Iowa State has gone from doormat, to bubble team, to top 10-20 ranked. To improve further, the offense is there, but the defense simply has to improve.

The Baylor loss is disappointing given the Big 12 title race, but frustrating due to why we lost. In most things, I'm a big proponent of making a strong effort to address known issues; I'd rather see an over-correction to a problem than see the same problem over and over.

We beat KU in Ames by running them out of the gym. So what does KU do in Lawrence? Stop ISU's transition and dare us to beat them some other way. And they win.

If Iowa St. was getting beat down low because we simply don't have the size, fine. But for how good the Big 12 is, there are almost no offensively elite post players in the Big 12 (save Niang). I don't think there's a single player over 6-8 averaging more than 12 pts a game. Except for defending an elite C like Okafor, we have the personnel to be decent on defense.

I'm not interested in placing blame and have no idea whether this is the game plan or lack of execution, just an observation.

 

[Trice]

For the most part, ISU fans are realistic, humble and are generally happy with exciting teams and have modest expectations. We have bipolarity when hopes become elevated and things don't always go our way, but that's sports.

An extra element for Iowa State fans is, a heightened level of success (a "noticeable outlier season," shall we say) doesn't come all that often, so when it does, we want to milk it for all it's worth, because either a rug will be pulled out (see '01 MBB, '02/04/05 football, as examples) or there could be years of stagnation between high points (numerous examples).

I could extend the thought further, but others can build on that, if you see where I'm going.

I agree with this, and I would introduce two external elements as well. The first is that many, many new Cyclone fans have come into the fold in the last 10 years or so. Many casual fans, yes, but also many ticket-buyers who now have a stake in our programs. Many of these fans are presumably younger, not as used to experiencing the many disappointments that some of us lifelong Cyclone fans have been through over the years, and perhaps less patient.

The second is money. It costs much more to be a Cyclone fan than it did even one year ago. With higher-prices come higher expectations. Not only is that fair, that's the marker Pollard has laid out. You can't charge me $425 + donations + parking for a wholly unspectacular seat in Jack Trice and tell me I don't have the right to be upset when we're not competitive.

 

[Trice]

Same with nebraska football. It seems crazy to fire a coach who is averaging 9 wins to us because we don't, but at some point you want to improve.

And that's our right! It drives me crazy when sportswriters say to schools like Iowa State, "Why would you fire [insert coach here]? Who else are you going to get?" As if we're assigned a lot in life and should be forced to accept it.

Any program anywhere has the right to want to do better than it is currently doing. It has the right to make hiring and firing decisions to better position itself to do better. It also has the right to suffer the consequences when those decisions turn out badly.

 

[Cyclonepride]

ALL THAT MATTERS IS GETTING TO THE DANCE. FROM THERE, ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN. AND FRED HAS US IN THE DANCE YEARLY, AND I LOOK FOR THAT TO CONTINUE. AND YES, I AM YELLING AND I DON'T KNOW WHY.

 

[tigerclone924]

No you won't. And that's not a knock on you personally, it's just human nature. If we're top 20 every year but never or rarely compete for the Big 12 title, or make a couple of Sweet 16s but never break through to the Elite Eight, people will get bored/restless. Because our expectations have been readjusted and we'll want better.

Look no further than Iowa football. Ferentz put together the single best run in Iowa history and within a few years later, they wanted him gone, an annual rite that has continued since.

I totally get higher expectations, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that! In fact, having higher expectations as a program and fan base is part of developing the winning culture that is necessary to achieve elite status. My gripe (for lack of a better term) is with fans that seem to think that because our coach is a hot commodity and our program is on the rise that we have gained the right to do to other programs what we have hated having done to us for the almost complete duration of our program's existence.

Lots of egg on our faces IF (and boy I hope this isn't the case) history repeats itself and we have a nice run that is not sustained. I would rather see sustained success and/or greater heights reached before we take on the role of "better than" teams that are in a position that we have as recently as 5 years ago been. And as I have stated multiple times, a place we have spent a majority of our existence in.

There is an undeniable ebb and flow within college athletics. Teams reign, conferences reign, coaches reign but over time things even out and those on top find themselves in the position or "rebuilding" or mediocrity. (See Michigan football, Penn State football, Big 10 as a conference basketball, Bob Stoops) Being able to sustain the highs and endure the lows are what elite programs are measured by in my book. Enjoy the ride but don't get a false sense of having arrived after a good 4 year run. That takes a decade (minimum) to validate.

 

[NickTheGreat]

We are not an Elite Program. We may be on our way, as we all hope. But not yet.

 

[ISUKyro]

Going to NCAA tournament for 4th year in a row. For. The. First. Time. Ever.

That says a lot.

I'm the first guy that will say, "I want to win the Big 12, over a sweet 16 run".
But this 4th year in a row is really something.

To think we still have 3 games to play and the B12 tourney as well...... and there is no doubt that we are in the tournament at this point.

It didn't always used to be this way. I remember being so stressed that we would need a killer run in the B12 tourney to get either over the bubble or just hope to get into the bubble.

That alone shows how this program has changed in a great way so far!

 

[CyCy]

I believe some our (newer) basketball fans were born on 3rd base and think they hit a triple.

 

[jcisuclones]

I was expecting us to be pretty damn good this year, like everyone else was, where we were potentially better than last year's team. However, next year's team is the one I have very high expectations for, regardless if we land Diallo or not.