2005 vs 2011 talent

[jaretac]

Comparing position by position talent for the 2011 squad (based on the spring depth chart) versus the talent of our 2005 team


Offense
......2005...............2011..................Better Player
QB....Bret Meyer.........Jerome Tiller.........Meyer
RB....Stevie Hicks.......Shontrelle Johnson....Hicks
FB....Ryan Kock..........Jeff Woody............Kock
WR....Todd Bylthe........Darius Reynolds.......Bylthe
WR....Austin Flynn.......Josh Lenz.............Flynn
WR....Jon Davis..........Darius Darks..........Davis
TE....Ben Barkema........Kurt Hammerschmidt....Hammerschmidt
LT....Scott Fisher.......Kelechi Osemele.......Osemele
LG....Kory Pence.........Ethan Tuftee..........Pence
C.....Scot Stephenson....Tom Farniok...........Stephenson
RG....Seth Zehr..........Hayworth Hicks........Hicks
RT....Aaron Brant........Brayden Burris........Brant
2005..9 players
2009..3 players

Notes-
-We really don't have a FB in the new system so I took the #2 running back for 2011
-We have so many newer guys on the Oline and that really is a position that benifits from experience so I have to go with Pence and Stephenson for now. Brant and Burris is a bit of a toss up.
-I don't think our starting lineup will look like this for our first game

Defense
......2005...............2011..................Better Player
RE....Cephus Johnson.....Roosevelt Maggitt.....Maggitt
NG....Nick Leaders......Stephen Ruempolhamer...Leaders
DT....Brent Curvey.......Jake McDonough........Curvey
LE....Jason Berryman.....Jacob Lattimer........Berryman
SLB...Jamarr Buchanan....A.J. Klein............Klein
MLB...Tim Dobbins........Matt Tau’ fo’ ‘o......Dobbins
WLB...Matt Robertson.....Jake Knott............Knott
LCB...DeAndre Jackson....Jeremy Reeves.........Jackson
RCB...LaMarcus Hicks.....Leonard Johnson.......Johnson
SS....Nik Moser..........Ter’Ran Benton........Benton
FS....Steve Paris........Jacques Washington....Paris
2005..6 players
2009..5 players

Notes-
-We are still rather young on defense but I see reason to be excited. I believe by the end of this season we will see a lot more current players in the last column.


Special Teams
......2005...............2011..................Better Player
PK....Bret Culbertson....Grant Mahoney.........Mahoney
P.....Tony Yelk..........Kirby Van Der Kamp....Kamp
PR....Ryan Baum..........Leonard Johnson.......Baum
KR....DeAndre Jackson....Leonard Johnson.......Johnson
2005..1 players
2009..3 players

Notes-
-Yelk could coffin corner the ball like a pro, but I think Kamp is better and more consistent
-PK is actually more of a toss up then I expected even last year, but I still think Mahoney is better, however just slightly.


Thoughts?

 

[Cyhart]

Im assuming you didnt mean to put "2009" at the top of one of your columns?

I think some of these are yet to be determined. For instance, you have Hicks over Shontrelle. But if someone put a gun to my head and said, do you think that when its all said and done, Shontrelle will have a better career than Stevie? Id say yes without hesitation.
You also have Meyer vs Tiller. But Jantz could end up being better than both of them. Time will tell.
So my thoughts are, a bit too early to compare some of these players.

 

[Al_4_State]

Mahoney's % pales in comparisons to Culbertson's. Both are/were terrible though.

I would take Moser over Benton.

Wasn't Shawn Moorehead the starting DE opposite Berryman? I remember him playing more than Cephus Johnson.

Woody is a better every down back than Kock.

 

[bostrem00]

Wouldn't comparing 2004 to 2011 be more accurating considering how much ISU lost from those 2 yrs...

 

[cycloneman003]

pretty accurate i think. a few could be argued, but 2005 was a REALLY talented team. they should have done a lot more but thats another story.

the only one i might change is picking one of the 2011 recievers over Davis.. that guy had some issues dropping balls if i remember right.

...also agree with LJ being picked over Hicks, but Lamarcus was pretty damn good!

 

[delt4cy]

Agree with most of the list but it's a tough choice at RB for me.

Some games Hicks was an all out beast, others he got lost at the LOS.

Johnson definitely has a quicker burst from the LOS but won't be able to scrap out 3yd after contact like Stevie could.

Hicks is better comparing stats, but I think Johnson has the potential to be better.

 

[dualthreat]

How would you like that LB crew? Knott-Dobbins-Klein?

 

[cc1091]

Agree with most of the list but it's a tough choice at RB for me.

Some games Hicks was an all out beast, others he got lost at the LOS.

Johnson definitely has a quicker burst from the LOS but won't be able to scrap out 3yd after contact like Stevie could.

Hicks is better comparing stats, but I think Johnson has the potential to be better.

I hate speaking ill of Stevie, but there were many games where I was very disappointed in his ability to read the blocks and find the hole. (I'm glad he did have that one glorious second half in the comeback at KSU)

Shontrell impresses me that he can both see the hole in the line, and turn on the jets to slip through.

Every runner is a little different though.

 

[jaretac]

Im assuming you didnt mean to put "2009" at the top of one of your columns?

I think some of these are yet to be determined. For instance, you have Hicks over Shontrelle. But if someone put a gun to my head and said, do you think that when its all said and done, Shontrelle will have a better career than Stevie? Id say yes without hesitation.
You also have Meyer vs Tiller. But Jantz could end up being better than both of them. Time will tell.
So my thoughts are, a bit too early to compare some of these players.

Yes I did mean 2011. I did this a couple years ago and I stole the formatting, just forgot to change the date.

I agree with your sentiment and said as much in my notes. I'm just basing my answers on the last depth chart available. This would obviously be more accurate just before the first game when we know for sure who are starters are.

Also, I'm not trying to limit any of our guys. Right now our young guys just don't have the experience, in time though they may very well be better!

One thing I do find disconcerting is that in 2009 we had a lot more guys beating out 2005 players. I don't find this disconcerting in the idea that we are getting worse, because I do believe we have more depth; however, we have undeveloped depth. This might make us really really good next year, but for this year it may very well be a tough year.

 

[clone4good]

Lamarcus hicks is better than leonard Johnson. dude was a stud.

 

[cycloneman003]

Lamarcus hicks is better than leonard Johnson. dude was a stud.

i think we under-rate leonard a little bit ourselves just because hes here right now and we take him for granted... LJ is on hell of a CB. Certainly the best one we've had since DeAndre and Lamarcus

 

[pulse]

Mahoney's % pales in comparisons to Culbertson's. Both are/were terrible though.

I would take Moser over Benton.

Wasn't Shawn Moorehead the starting DE opposite Berryman? I remember him playing more than Cephus Johnson.

Woody is a better every down back than Kock.

I'd take Moser too. I'd also take LaMarcus Hicks hands down. The defensive unit in 2005 was better, mainly because the DL was so much better.

 

[Al_4_State]

Hicks was solid, but I think Johnson has more NFL potential.

If we just had that same DL, LJ would have 1st round stats.

 

[pulse]

That's the thing. I can remember Hicks and his great interceptions. When I think of LJ, nothing about him making plays comes to mind.

 

[cyatheart]

Lamarcus hicks is better than leonard Johnson. dude was a stud.

Leonard is a stud as well, I think LJ will be better when it is all said and done, but I do agree. Right now Lamarcus Hicks was the better player, always felt he was a very underrated player. Not a dig on LJ, I just thought Hicks was that good. Both are outstanding though.

 

[ISU_Alum_2000]

That's the thing. I can remember Hicks and his great interceptions. When I think of LJ, nothing about him making plays comes to mind.

This is a classic case of how hard it can be to determine how good a CB is.

His he not making plays because isn't as good, or is he not making plays because the opponent doesn't throw his way very much. Similarly, teams were likely throwing the ball to Hick's side more to avoid Jackson, thus, giving Hicks more opportunities to make plays.

I think corners are kind of like the OL... often time, the less you hear about them (getting burned), the better.

And if you want an LJ play to remember from last year - think the Texas game (2nd half, I think), Texas is driving deep in our territory, LJ makes a leaping INT on the sideline and keeps the toes in bounds. Awesome play.

 

[jaretac]

No doubt about it, Hicks was a good player! I remember many great plays by him, but I also remember a lot of great plays by LJ.

I do also think Hicks benefits from having been a good player on a great defense, where LJ is/has been a good player on a average to poor defense. It is easier to make plays when the QB is trying to force things because of good coverage by the whole unit.

Also, at the end of 2005 Hicks was finishing up his Sr year where LJ is just starting his Sr year. Can we say that Hicks at the end of the 2004 season was better the LJ? If anything it is a toss up between the two.

 

[cycloneman003]

Lamarcus had a lot of opportunities to make plays because no one ever wanted to throw towards deandre's side... the less times you hear your #1 CB's name called, the better because that means they are staying completely away from whoever he is covering

 

[CloneFan4]

I think you'd have to go with Stevie as of now but I really think that by the end of the season Shontrelle will prove to be better. I may be hyping him up a bit too much but I really think he's gonna be good. Meyer's 2005 year was really incredible but the last two years he just plain sucked.

 

[CylentButDeadly]

This is purely speculative at this point, but I think by the end of this year when we dig up this thread, this year's OL will be thought of as much better than the 05 edition. Furthermore, I think the RB group will be superior and Shontrelle, though a different type of back, will be on equal ground with Stevie Hicks.

As far as the WRs go, I think they'll play much better and Money could have a breakout year, but the 05 WR group had better top end talent (even if the depth was average).

QB...we can only hope...

On defense, I think Dutch could push Leaders and Curvey for PT. It would be a nice 3-man rotation for sure, and I wouldn't be surprised if Dutch works himself into that Rubin, Carstens, Reed, Leaders, Curvey territory when all is said and done. He has potential and has steadily improved each year.

Berryman was a freak but Lattimer and Moorehead/Johnson might be a push or advantage Latt if he keeps improving his technique to match his motor.

Klein and Knott are going to be remembered as all time greats when they wrap up their careers, but Dobbins was clearly better than anyone this year's team has in the middle.

The secondary is interesting. LJ very well could be the best CB we've had since E-Hobbs, but you guys are right, he hasn't made the memorable plays that others did to really distinguish himself and I haven't watched him closely enough to really grasp his talent. Benton is a gamer and could play any position in the secondary and we'll miss him next year. He reminds me of Dejon Gomes from Nebraska who was a very good player. I don't know what we are going to get from the rest of our DBs or if Reeves can take the next step, but we shouldn't be too bad back there.

As a whole, the 05 team as we all know is the team that "should have been...". I think the current staff is better and the depth might be better (can't tell until season plays out), but the 05 team is still more talented than what we have on paper right now.