Would TJ drop everything and take the ISU job if it came open?
- Thread starter Gunnerclone
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Remember too that Jamie would take these weird trips to Brookings to watch TJ during the season and post it on twitter. Always thought the optics on that was odd given its believed he wanted to hire TJ but leath vetoed and wanted Prohm. Jamie and TJ obviously keep in touch. So if we were to be looking for a new coach TJ would be at the top of pollards list.
So our expectations shouldn't be a winning basketball team every season? If those aren't your expectations what are you doing here?
Leath didn't "veto" anyone - this is a total myth. Prohm was Pollard's choice, and only Pollard picked him.
Smith is originally from University of South Dakota. Good coach. Scott Nagy from Wright State is solid.
In college basketball you need experi
Over half the roster has never played together, lots of youth coming off the bench, small guards, short starting center who struggles to rebound, COVID off-season meant little time to come together. Knowing all of that plus the Big 12 has 1/2 of the league in the top 10 of KenPom...
That to me isn't isn't a recipe for success.
However, with a near 5 star pg incoming, top big 12 teams won't be as dominant (unless their seniors come back because of the extra COVID year rule) and this team having a year to get. I have higher hopes for next year. If you read my posts further into this thread. I've said that I will lead the fire prohm wagon if we aren't in the tourney next year
Over half the roster has never played together, lots of youth coming off the bench, small guards, short starting center who struggles to rebound, COVID off-season meant little time to come together. Knowing all of that plus the Big 12 has 1/2 of the league in the top 10 of KenPom...
That to me isn't isn't a recipe for success.
However, with a near 5 star pg incoming, top big 12 teams won't be as dominant (unless their seniors come back because of the extra COVID year rule) and this team having a year to get. I have higher hopes for next year. If you read my posts further into this thread. I've said that I will lead the fire prohm wagon if we aren't in the tourney next year
It is a difference.........................of 4 games. Big enough for the constant p****** and moaning every....................single...................game? Even in a win? For reference there is always this:
Johnny Orr's conference record over 14 seasons was 79-117
His last five years were 27-43
that rounds to a best average of 6-8
Tim Floyd was 30-30 over 4 years which is about 8-8
LE was 42-38 over 5 years which is about 9-7
Wayne was 22-26 over 3 years which is about 7-9
GMAC was 18-46 over 4 seasons which is about 5-11
So as you can see, outside of GMAC.....there are no huge outliers here. A game or two around .500 is the mark. Some good years.....some average.......some bad. I guess it's up to each of us when we think it's time to get a rope. Mine was GMAC....year 4. It seems with Steve you tied that knot 5 years ago and have been trying to push the chair from under his feet ever since. Like I said last year it's up to you....but being depressed all season because you don't like a coach is a miserable way to be a fan. I mean we are just 2 games into this season and here we are..............let's talk come Feb. or March.
Solo is tied with Tyler Harris for rebounding this year... We won't be good when our starting center ties the shortest player on the court in rebounding...
I always wondered
I noticed that too and always wondered....because we've had lots of assistants in sports that Pollard could follow as they move to other jobs, etc. Maybe JP seeing the future and investing in a relationship for a future coach (but you'd think that'd be a long play and could feel shallow to TJ)?
Who knows. We also have heard JP say Hoiberg reached out and he didn't go with him until the right time presented.
Even since Freds first year we have been an awful rebounding team, its just how its going to be. Were not going to get some beast downlow to rebound for us that is clear by now. The main difference between our really good teams and bad teams is the fact that we cannot shoot the 3. There isnt a single person on this team i want shooting a 3. So with no shooters we need to adjust the "offense" but that just doesnt happen here. Before we could make up for our lack of rebounding with our 3pt shooting % so when we arent shooting well that rebound margin looks even worse. Prohm doesnt recruit shooters he wants this long combo guards that cant shoot to save their lives and thats fine if they can defend which from what i have seen they cant.
In college basketball you need experi
Over half the roster has never played together, lots of youth coming off the bench, small guards, short starting center who struggles to rebound, COVID off-season meant little time to come together. Knowing all of that plus the Big 12 has 1/2 of the league in the top 10 of KenPom...
That to me isn't isn't a recipe for success.
However, with a near 5 star pg incoming, top big 12 teams won't be as dominant (unless their seniors come back because of the extra COVID year rule) and this team having a year to get. I have higher hopes for next year. If you read my posts further into this thread. I've said that I will lead the fire prohm wagon if we aren't in the tourney next year
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I half agree, these factors have an impact but the thing is, we have far too weak of a program culture and poor coaching to overcome these things. You forget this will be our 3rd losing season in 4 years. Our struggles aren't a new thing. Crumbling under adversity is a calling card for Prohm's teams. This situation wasn't created by Covid, it's been 5 years in the making.
Over half the roster has never played together, lots of youth coming off the bench, small guards, short starting center who struggles to rebound, COVID off-season meant little time to come together. Knowing all of that plus the Big 12 has 1/2 of the league in the top 10 of KenPom...
That to me isn't isn't a recipe for success.
However, with a near 5 star pg incoming, top big 12 teams won't be as dominant (unless their seniors come back because of the extra COVID year rule) and this team having a year to get. I have higher hopes for next year. If you read my posts further into this thread. I've said that I will lead the fire prohm wagon if we aren't in the tourney next year
[/QUOTE]
I half agree, these factors have an impact but the thing is, we have far too weak of a program culture and poor coaching to overcome these things. You forget this will be our 3rd losing season in 4 years. Our struggles aren't a new thing. Crumbling under adversity is a calling card for Prohm's teams. This situation wasn't created by Covid, it's been 5 years in the making.
I half agree, these factors have an impact but the thing is, we have far too weak of a program culture and poor coaching to overcome these things. You forget this will be our 3rd losing season in 4 years. Our struggles aren't a new thing. Crumbling under adversity is a calling card for Prohm's teams. This situation wasn't created by Covid, it's been 5 years in the making.
It was publicly known at the time that Leath wanted to put his finger on the scale after it came out that TJ might be the front runner. This was a pretty common issue we heard about Leath at both ISU and Auburn. He wanted to be involved and have the ultimate say in many things, even areas he really wasn’t qualified.
Anyone who reads any of my posts during the basketball seasons know that I had been a passionate, even strident, fan and defender of CSP. And that's not necessarily because I felt he was the best coach in the conference, but more because I felt a need to defend him against the vocal minority of fans who decided to hate him and be against him from the moment he was hired; not because of anything he did or didn't do on the court, but rather because of who he wasn't and who he replaced.
And I am not engaging in hyperbole with that; there are posters who have stated that they feel the '14-15 season that ended with a huge upset loss in the 1st round of the NCAA tournament to 'freakin UAB was a better season then the next one that ended up in the Sweet 16. There are posters on here who hold us beating 12/13 "mid-major" seeds against him as opposed to a "name team" like UCONN back in 2012 (again, I am not making that up). There were people who were upset that we didn't beat Texas Tech (only the national runner-up who lost to only us on their home court that '18-'19 season) by double digits. His successes in 3 out of his first 4 seasons here are on par with the accomplishment from other coaches of our historically good teams, and I will absolutely defend those good seasons against the unfair and irrational criticism against him based on who he's not until the day I die. I will absolutely fight on that hill.
Now, that all being written, the numbers and the records are what they are, and there is no question that we are trending downward. Too much player attrition, for both good and bad reasons, have really held this program back, and that is ultimately his responsibility. The only player left from our recruiting class a couple of years ago is Trae Jackson, and two of him contemporaries never even saw the floor before transferring out. Somebody else wrote that George Conditt is the only player left from his class. ISU is not the type of program that can consistently replace our best players who might leave early (like TH) with identical talent the way a program like Kansas or Kentucky can. Our recruiting is certainly going well, but it's not going THAT well. IMO, it's important for us to develop solid 4-year players for us to be a good, top level Big 12 program, but obviously you can't do that when your recruits don't pan out and transfer early.
I want CSP to succeed, but I fear the writing is on the wall. If someone like Thad Matta, or maybe even John Beilein is available at the end of the season and are interested in coaching again, I think you need to make those calls. Either way, I hope to see improvement over the course of the season, and I'll support the team regardless of what happens on the court.
And I am not engaging in hyperbole with that; there are posters who have stated that they feel the '14-15 season that ended with a huge upset loss in the 1st round of the NCAA tournament to 'freakin UAB was a better season then the next one that ended up in the Sweet 16. There are posters on here who hold us beating 12/13 "mid-major" seeds against him as opposed to a "name team" like UCONN back in 2012 (again, I am not making that up). There were people who were upset that we didn't beat Texas Tech (only the national runner-up who lost to only us on their home court that '18-'19 season) by double digits. His successes in 3 out of his first 4 seasons here are on par with the accomplishment from other coaches of our historically good teams, and I will absolutely defend those good seasons against the unfair and irrational criticism against him based on who he's not until the day I die. I will absolutely fight on that hill.
Now, that all being written, the numbers and the records are what they are, and there is no question that we are trending downward. Too much player attrition, for both good and bad reasons, have really held this program back, and that is ultimately his responsibility. The only player left from our recruiting class a couple of years ago is Trae Jackson, and two of him contemporaries never even saw the floor before transferring out. Somebody else wrote that George Conditt is the only player left from his class. ISU is not the type of program that can consistently replace our best players who might leave early (like TH) with identical talent the way a program like Kansas or Kentucky can. Our recruiting is certainly going well, but it's not going THAT well. IMO, it's important for us to develop solid 4-year players for us to be a good, top level Big 12 program, but obviously you can't do that when your recruits don't pan out and transfer early.
I want CSP to succeed, but I fear the writing is on the wall. If someone like Thad Matta, or maybe even John Beilein is available at the end of the season and are interested in coaching again, I think you need to make those calls. Either way, I hope to see improvement over the course of the season, and I'll support the team regardless of what happens on the court.
I agree. There are a lot of nice pieces returning to go with Hunter. This team will take its lumps here and there, but I feel like they can surprise some people too as they get comfortable with each other.
ISU was decent during Fred's tenure, in terms of Defensive Rebound % (Houge, Ejim, and Royce led the way). First year was bad. Getting into the top 100 would certainly create more offensive possessions for this team.
Eustachy's teams were phenomenal.
I am not surprised. They have had a ton of transfers since he got there. Probably trying to remake the team to how he wants it to look. They have a ton of Freshman this year. I think in a couple years though he will have them looking good. Has a couple 4 star top 50 players signed for next year.
