Why No International Recruits

[cybsball20]

I don't pretend to know anything about Wrestling, in fact I really don't even like it even though I gave it a legit shot (went to every meet my junior year). But I noticed in the Olympics that the US got worked. Why don't we recruit some of these international athletes?

I may not like wrestling but I like to see ISU win!

 

[theshadow]

Because collegiate wrestling is folkstyle, and the rest of the world wrestles freestyle. Different styles, different rules, different scoring.

 

[cybsball20]

Because collegiate wrestling is folkstyle, and the rest of the world wrestles freestyle. Different styles, different rules, different scoring.

Should college wrestling change to freestyle to give us a better chance internationally? How hard would it be for Freestyle wrestlers to make that transition?

 

[RyCy04]

We tried getting this guy, but he didn't have the grades.

 

[illinoiscyclone]

international recruits would all basically be raw talent. there are three types of wrestling- folkstyle (which we do here), free style(which is the olympic type that most think of) and greco-roman( the other olympic type that features all upperbody moves. they all three have different rules, and are almost like 3 seperate sports. the difference from greco-folkstyle is probably comprable to a boxer in an mma match with no ground skills or submissions. long story short, the best folkstyle wrestlers are in the US, because nobody else wrestles folkstyle.



it took so long to write that that there was already 4 responses.

 

[illinoiscyclone]

Should college wrestling change to freestyle to give us a better chance internationally? How hard would it be for Freestyle wrestlers to make that transition?

that is a topic of debate in the wrestling community, but the fact is most elite wrestlers in the "offseason" wrestle freestyle and greco to break the monotony, and mix things up a bit.

 

[illinoiscyclone]

Should the NCAA go to a Freestyle and Greco format? - Illinois Matmen Forums

 

[theshadow]

Should college wrestling change to freestyle to give us a better chance internationally? How hard would it be for Freestyle wrestlers to make that transition?

Freestyle wrestling would kill the sport in college. The lack of scoring (and knowledge of the rules) would drive casual fans and/or fence-sitters completely away.

 

[cybsball20]

Freestyle wrestling would kill the sport in college. The lack of scoring (and knowledge of the rules) would drive casual fans and/or fence-sitters completely away.

FYI, outside of Iowa I don't think there are many casual fans. Having a better presence in the Olympics and world competition would get more fans than anything...

and this is coming from someone who tried to be a fan...

 

[Cy Hard]

Coupled with no money to go recruit overseas, and little scholly money to spend. And does Joe Six pack go pay to see a kid from here in the midwest, or a kid from the mid-east wrestle.

 

[Knownothing]

Because most of the international recruits have wrestled on teams that have had a couple of pro wrestlers. Then they would have to get knee surgery anyway when they became eligilbe after the first year.

 

[jahfg]

FYI, outside of Iowa I don't think there are many casual fans. Having a better presence in the Olympics and world competition would get more fans than anything...

and this is coming from someone who tried to be a fan...

Out of curiosity, what did you not like about wrestling?

 

[mplscyclone]

Should college wrestling change to freestyle to give us a better chance internationally? How hard would it be for Freestyle wrestlers to make that transition?

The thing is that Freestyle is ALL about wrestling on your feet. The ref will stand two guys up after only about 10-15 seconds on the mat.

To me, folkstyle is about controlling the opponent; you get bonus points for riding time, you try to keep a guy down if you can get him down.

Freesytle is about scoring points from your feet. It's a much different strategy; it's fast paced action from your feet.

Having wrestled at somewhat of a high level in high school. I did participate in Freestyle and Greco in the offseason along with some Judo. Most serious high school wrestlers and probably all collegiate wrestlers do at least Freestyle in the offseason so it wouldn't be all that difficult for them to make the transition.

A lot of good wrestlers that I know actually prefer freestyle as it's faster paced and based on striking.

I think the reason why it hasn't been implemented in college is because of the fans. Most people that I know who also do not know the sport well, tend to at least follow who's winning in folkstyle easy. When they're on the mat, they understand back points, pins, riding time, reversals, and escapes much more so than they understand what a takedown in.

I am always kinda surprised at how many people who I would think are knowledgable fans start yelling out "2" when it clearly isn't a takedown yet. A lot of people think if you get the guy down, you get 2, but you also have to be in control.

Going back to the naive fan, they can get a sense of who's winning in a folkstyle match even if they don't know all the points. I don't think a casual fan could get a sense of who won the match by watching freestyle.

I know some may say "they can just look at the scoreboard", but fans want to have a sense of what's going on. In other sports, there's a basket, or a goal that you can tell when points are going to happen. With Wrestling, it's not always clear when someone will score.

I think putting in a style that is more about striking and less about control, would confuse some fans.

 

[cloneu]

I like folksytle better. But then again I have never wrestled freestyle or really know the rules for it. From an Olympic/world stand point though it would seem beneficial to move to freestyle to be more competitive with everybody else.

 

[cybsball20]

Out of curiosity, what did you not like about wrestling?

I didn't grow up with it. Our high school team had 5 guys on it, one of them just physically dominated guys with his strength and almost one state even though he didn't know anything about wrestling either. I gave it a try and had friends on the team (spent plenty of time in the training room with those guys) it's just not interesting. Too much stalling, not enough offense, then the random points for riding time and what not. I wasn't alone. When I transfered in alot of us (mostly guys from California) were curious, with the whole Cael thing and the history. It didn't keep any of our interest.

 

[mplscyclone]

I don't pretend to know anything about Wrestling, in fact I really don't even like it even though I gave it a legit shot (went to every meet my junior year). But I noticed in the Olympics that the US got worked. Why don't we recruit some of these international athletes?

I may not like wrestling but I like to see ISU win!

That's cool. At least you gave it a shot; that's more than most!

I've seen international wrestlers struggle quite a bit with folkstyle. A lot of Russians are usually pretty good, but when they come to the US they're just average.

I think if we changed our style of Wrestling here, you'd have some International athletes unseating Americans.

A big reason why Arizona State possibly cutting wrestling is that there'd be a decent number of west coast high school wrestlers not having a place to wrestle in college.

Anyhow if International Athletes came and beat out local people for spots, more people would be detached from the sport and there'd be less Americans getting ready for the Olympics.

I had a friend go to state 3X in Minnesota and place once and he didn't get any D1 offers, just a handful of D2. It's tough to make a college wrestling team in general, especially in Minnesota and Iowa: there's not many options and a lot of tough competition in- state.

 

[sunset]

Going back to the naive fan, they can get a sense of who's winning in a folkstyle match even if they don't know all the points. I don't think a casual fan could get a sense of who won the match by watching freestyle.

I know some may say "they can just look at the scoreboard", but fans want to have a sense of what's going on. In other sports, there's a basket, or a goal that you can tell when points are going to happen. With Wrestling, it's not always clear when someone will score.

I think putting in a style that is more about striking and less about control, would confuse some fans.

I am about as far away from expert status as you can get, but what confuses me with Olympic freestyle are the seemingly random rules.

- When a period ends in a non-zero tie score, why in the world do they award the period to the last person to score (or is it the first person?) instead of having them continue to wrestle? Is scoring last (or first if that's the case) really more important than the reverse? Can you imagine if there were no overtimes in football/basketball/etc and they used a similar rule?

- If I understand correctly, when a period ends 0-0 they flip a coin to see how they begin the tie-breaker/overtime. Why in the world do they flip a coin again if it happens a second or third time? Doesn't it make sense to simply reverse whatever happened with the first coin-flip? Leaving advantage to random chance doesn't seem fair.

So many questions for a sport I watch once every four years. You are right, I just don't get it.

 

[mplscyclone]

I am about as far away from expert status as you can get, but what confuses me with Olympic freestyle are the seemingly random rules.

- When a period ends in a non-zero tie score, why in the world do they award the period to the last person to score (or is it the first person?) instead of having them continue to wrestle? Is scoring last (or first if that's the case) really more important than the reverse? Can you imagine if there were no overtimes in football/basketball/etc and they used a similar rule?

- If I understand correctly, when a period ends 0-0 they flip a coin to see how they begin the tie-breaker/overtime. Why in the world do they flip a coin again if it happens a second or third time? Doesn't it make sense to simply reverse whatever happened with the first coin-flip? Leaving advantage to random chance doesn't seem fair.

So many questions for a sport I watch once every four years. You are right, I just don't get it.

1) In freestyle, the match is won on a round by round basis. You wrestle 3 periods. The winner of the two periods, wins the match.

For example, say after period 1, the score is : 3-1 you
In period 2, the score is: 1-4, then
And in Period 3, the score is : 1-0 you

You win the match because you won periods 1, and 3, even though the final score ends up being 5-5

Like-wise, if you win the first two periods, the match is over.

Also, if you won 3-1, lost 1-20, won 1-0, you were outscored
4-21, but you win the match

2) If at the end of each period, you're tied 0-0, you then do the tiebreaker, known as the clinch. A ref does a coin flip to determine who is clinched and who does the clinching. If you score a point after 30 seconds, you win that period. Also, if you are doing the clinching and no one scores after the 30 seconds, you win the period.

As far as why they do the coin-flip, it's just because. In folkstyle, they flip a coin to determine who choses which position to be in. It's just one of those things.

As a freestyle-wrestler, you gotta know how to score from either position.

Hopefully that helps! Remember, in Olympic Wrestling, you're trying to win 2 of 3 matches, not overall points spread out between the matches.

 

[sunset]

It seems like I remember seeing a period tied 2-2 and one person won because they scored first or last (I don't remember which). I guess you just have to know the rules and when to be aggressive. Is the clench only when a period is tied 0-0?

I understand the coin flip in folk-style, the winner gets to pick first then the other person gets the choice the following period. That seems fair to me. What I don't get is when I watched a free-style match (I think it was a U.S. trials match and a Hawk was on the losing end of the randomness) and they did a coin-flip after the first period and wrestler "x" benefitted. Then the same situation came up at the end of the second period and they did another coin-flip, which wrestler "x" again benefitted. Seems to me it would have been more fair if wrestler "y" automatically got the choice the second time instead of having another flip.

I'm sure the rules make sense to most of the world, I guess I don't get what seems to be some randomness.

Thanks for the explanations.

 

[mplscyclone]

It seems like I remember seeing a period tied 2-2 and one person won because they scored first or last (I don't remember which). I guess you just have to know the rules and when to be aggressive. Is the clench only when a period is tied 0-0?

I understand the coin flip in folk-style, the winner gets to pick first then the other person gets the choice the following period. That seems fair to me. What I don't get is when I watched a free-style match (I think it was a U.S. trials match and a Hawk was on the losing end of the randomness) and they did a coin-flip after the first period and wrestler "x" benefitted. Then the same situation came up at the end of the second period and they did another coin-flip, which wrestler "x" again benefitted. Seems to me it would have been more fair if wrestler "y" automatically got the choice the second time instead of having another flip.

I'm sure the rules make sense to most of the world, I guess I don't get what seems to be some randomness.

Thanks for the explanations.

I'll start with the coin flip. I think it's just one of those things. It determines position, but still up to each wrestler to execute. I don't think it's really going anywhere...

Now onto a tied non-zero-score period:

If a period is tied like 2-2, there is a series of tie-breakers:

1) Did anyone get any cautions? Cautions are illegal holds, stalling, etc. Whoever got the LEAST amount of cautions wins the match. This is going back to awarding for attacking and trying moves.

2)Often times neither gets a caution. If that's the case, THEN they look at who got the highest scoring move. For example, if it's 4-4, did one guy get a 3 point move, then 1, or was it 2-2, or 1-1-1-1?
Whoever has the highest scoring move, they win the period. So if a guy did a 2 point move, and the other did two 1 point moves, the guy that did the 2 point move would win.

3)If #2 doesn't break the tie, THEN the period is awarded to the person who scored last.

By looking at those above tie-breakers, you can see it's about attacking and making sure you stay aggresive throughout the period. It really rewards those who continue to be aggressive and keep trying moves.

In folkstyle, a guy can build an early lead, and then hope to maintain it by not being aggresive through the rest of the period. Also in folkstyle, a guy can build a big lead in period 1, and be conservative the last 2 periods.

In freestyle, it's a more "what have you done lately" approach. Each period is a single event you have to win, and you gotta keep attacking throughout the entire period.

Hopefully that helps....