Maybe Gilbert just isn’t as good as we all think, he has moments he looks great but he’s mostly just a turnover machine
Turnovers
- Thread starter KCyclone2010
- Start date
At some point you have to look at the results of this team at full strength and realize that just number of TOs doesn’t tell the whole story. Are we turning the other team over? Are the TOs leading to a lot of points for the other team? We’re winning every game by double digits including a 30 point beat down of a mid pack Big 12 team and a 17 point win against a top 25 team.
I agree with you but I think it’s okay to discuss areas of improvement, even in a very good win.
I looked at ISU turnovers in games against NCAA tournament teams this year and here is where we landed:
Auburn 9
Dayton 7
Marquette 12
Baylor 12
Tech 15
KU 13
WV 14
Arizona 18
Kansas 7
Cinci (?) 18
Houston 12
Arizona 16
So outside of a couple anomalies and especially once teams got tape on this team, we turn the ball over. It feels odd because that’s not the hallmark of TJ’s teams but this isn’t going to be fixed, in my opinion. Just have to hope that offshooting nights don’t happen with above average turnover nights or well early exit March tournaments.
the only way ISU seems to be able to initiate offense in the half court is pick and roll at the top of the key or bad angle entry passes to a post who will back down his defender.
the scout as i see it:
-the lack of movement away from the ball allows off-ball defenders to gamble a lot. teams are gambling a lot against ISU and it is paying off for them constantly. ISU just cant sustain passing and ball movement enough to get the ball to the open man consistently.
-i think it is obvious that if your get really physical and muck up the pick and role at the top of the key you can be really disruptive to ISUs offense.
-ISU makes really lazy passes at the top of the key. if you are doing the first 2 things i mentioned, you will get a lot of live ball TOs here.
-ISU is also really bad at dribbling, so swipe at the ball constantly.
Hot take here, but if Gilbert had a Brockington type mid range game, this team would win a national championship. Gilbert would easily be the leading scorer and have 60% less turnovers, IMO
I felt good about KG on that play, and didn’t see much of that action again I felt. Seems like it should be there given the spacing our shooting opens up.
Keyshon (91) and Jefferson (63) have accounted for nearly half of the team's turnovers on the year (345). They've been especially bad at valuing the ball the last 6 weeks or so. During the non-con they were probably just better than the competition. In conference, the extra length and quickness and strength is making it hard for them.
This is why some of us were not enthused by Keyshon's play early in the year even though he was converting those wild drives into points. We anticipated that against better teams those would become TOs more often. It has been worse with the recent string of injuries to our 3pt threats, allowing defenses to collapse harder. Last night was the first night in like 6 weeks we've had the whole team available and we generally looked like a Final Four team again. It also helped that Heise is stepping up and hitting some shots. It will be big for us if that can continue.
Lipsey has 50 TO on the year, but has a 1.7 ast/to compared to Keyshon's 1.3.
Comparing this team to earlier TJ teams is tough because we play a different style now. Less consistently aggressive defense, more up tempo offense. That up tempo offense is going to lead to creating/taking some chances that will lead to more turnovers.
And I don't think it's "scheme" as much as it is scouting players weaknesses and tendencies. We're seeing defenders play a lot tighter and more physical. Early in the year they were trying to stay in front, but now they know we're loose with our dribble and are pressuring more and further from the basket.
And I don't think it's "scheme" as much as it is scouting players weaknesses and tendencies. We're seeing defenders play a lot tighter and more physical. Early in the year they were trying to stay in front, but now they know we're loose with our dribble and are pressuring more and further from the basket.
He was one of the best players in the country early in the year. He's really damn good when he's healthy.
In the infamous MSU game, there were 4 or more deep pass turnovers. Very frustrating!
He’s not attacking like he used to. And when he does, it’s usually a turnover instead of a made shot. I think that both him and Curtis just need to get healthy.
ISU had single-digit turnovers in 7 out of 11 non-conference games. ISU has had single-digit turnovers in 4 out of 18 conference games, two of those being against Colorado and UCF, two of the worst teams in the conference.
The turnover numbers from ISU's first ten conference games were 9,12,8,14,13,14,10,12,17,18. Things were definitely not "fine" in the first 10 conference games.
ISU was getting away with things early in the season because they athletically over-matched their opponents. That ended when conference play started, and the athleticism of the competition improved, but the players/coaches haven't adjusted. In addition, the opposing coaches now have ample scouting video to take advantage of ISU's affinity to make bad turnovers.
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If you look at turnover rate (a per possession metric), it's undeniable that there was a major turning point in the season around the WVU game.
this is from torvik:
prior to WVU, we had no games with 20%+ turnover rate. Starting with that game, 8 of 13 have had 20%+
Coincidentally, that game started the injuries with Tamin getting hurt, and we basically haven't been fully healthy since.
Agree on that. For some reason he prefers highly contested shots at the rim over wide open mid range/floaters
TJ was absolutely feverish to get Gilbert healthy enough to get him back in the starting line up.
More accurate is that Gilbert is really good despite the TOs and great if he can cut down on the TOs
