Time for a Real Discussion About Caitlin Clark

[CRcyclone6]

"Didn't want to do it."

"Are you my pal, Danny?"

 

[jcyclonee]

There's been a lot of talk about this, and yes, I completely agree that that's one serious (and *fair)* discussion about Caitlin Clark that needs to be had. There are several very accomplished athletes around the world for whom poor sportsmanship ruined their image - perhaps most notable (and any whiner crying "no one cares about soccer," you can shove it! Over 100 million Americans watch the world's most popular sport and more Americans participate in the sport than in any other nation on this planet! Go cry a river somewhere else) is Zinedine Zidane. One of the greatest of all time! Almost unanimously the greatest player of his generation! But he'll always be remembered for his hot-headedness (literally when it comes to the 2006 World Cup final, his final career game, where he headbutted a player and got himself sent off in possibly the biggest game of his career, costing his entire nation the ultimate crown in the sport)!

And oh, the similarities are also hilariously particular in regards to *how* their hotheadness came out. Zidane was particularly famous for yelling at refs and opponents constantly, getting involved in pointless shoving matches, and committing dumb fouls away from the play that were very costly to him and his teams (i.e., see the 2006 World Cup final example from above - very similar to the incident this whole thread began with, except imagine if that had been the NCAA tournament championship game, Clark had gotten a flagrant 2 and been ejected, and Iowa had went on to lose because of that! Zidane did stuff like that *a lot*)!

Yes, Caitlin needs to be careful if she doesn't want to end up like Zidane! And to be clear, Zidane is still beloved all over the world, but his hot-headedness still leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth! And to be completely fair to *both* athletes, the hotheadness - though inexcusable - actually came from *somewhere.* Yes, both Zidane and Clark, due to their immense talent, have (thoughout their entire lives) regularly been targets of attempts by opponents to seriously injure them (and refs and leagues have had a notorious lack of common sense in dealing with those situations - and please, no one pretend you haven't noticed! This is an ISU forum! We've *all* noticed because it's happened to *our* teams so *so* many times)! That's where all the jawing at refs, jawing at opponents after every bump and foul, and the retaliation to regular fouls with ejection-level fouls *often* comes from (not always! I can't speak for CC, but for example, Zidane's infamous heatbutt happened because the guy he headbutted insulted his sister. Yes, there was some shirt-tugging before, but he in no way felt the guy was intending to injure him. I don't know if there's a similar incident with Clark, but I wouldn't be surprised).

But, once again, like with Zidane, that's no excuse and it *won't* save you in the court of public opinion!

And yes, sadly, there *are* double-standards because she's a woman (yes, *several* male athletes have been notoriously bad sportsmen or awful human beings, yet are still beloved and their attitude is seen as "part of why they're so great." Oof)! That *can't* be ignored! I do agree that more than a bit of the backlash against Clark has indeed been quite sexist. But that being said, there *is* precedent for even revolutionary athletes' legacies being clouded by constant arguing with and yelling at refs and opponents and committing reckless fouls away from the ball! CC needs to be aware of that and find a more constructive way to "fight back" when she feels disrespected, warranted or not.

I'd recommend taking after MJ's example! Whenever he took it personally, he'd trash-talk, yes, but he's far more famous for putting up 50 points and embarrassing the other person. He'd go out of his way *not* to do something reckless so he could stay on the court and embarrass them *with his game.* I'd highly recommend Clark do *that!* If she receives a perceived slight, I'd highly recommend her saying, "Oh, you're gonna pay for that," or "Ok, this is personal now," and then if she's on pace for a 40-point near-triple-double, make it her goal to get a 50-point triple-double and then look right at the opponent she perceived to have slighted her in a clear "you brought this on your team" message, a la MJ during the 90s (and maybe add something innocuous - like the shrug MJ added with *commentator* Magic Johnson in the 1992 Finals, or reciprocating Mutombo's finger wag, like he did after dunking on Dikembe Mutombo in the 1997 playoffs)!

That's my take on this situation! If Clark doesn't want to go down as another Zidane, and wants to go down as the female MJ, *that* is how she needs to approach this!

And for anyone crying, "she's a Hawkeye, stop 'cheering' her on," I responded that claim in another comment! You can find my response to that claim above!

I'll give you credit. You've put more effort into your 6 posts than I have into all 22,000+ posts that I've made.

 

[BCClone]

A Hawkeye fan and I had this discussion, women’s college basketball is aided by a built in fan base. People who went there and associate with the s hook. WNBA doesn’t have that. I watch ISU WBBbut have noticed I will be on my phone during it also. The men’s game, I don’t touch my phone. The pace keeps me off it most likely. He said the same thing when he watches Iowa.

She’s not going to pull the WNBA viewership up as much.

 

[Gonzo]

"Are you my pal, Danny?"

"I want to be good."

 

[BCClone]

TLDR

Is this an Sig alt account?

Sig isn’t that bad.

 

[wonkadog]

He’s not a closet Hawk fan any longer…. he’s out in the wide open about it now.

But I guess I get it somewhat…. on Iowa Everywhere he has to pander to all things Iowa…. not just ISU. It is what it is.

I couldn’t do it, but that’s just me. I’ve been treated too horribly by Hawk fans for about 45 years now to ever wish good things on them. Having them yell obscenities at my kids when they were young at an ISU-Iowa football game put me over the top. Then years later having full beer cans thrown at me and other ISU fans walking to our cars at Kinnick didn’t help any.

So I’m sorry if I’m not worshipping the ground CC walks on and cheering for them.

He's no Iowa fan. Does he have an unhealthy obsession and borderline creepy enjoyment out of following women's college basketball all of a sudden? No doubt about it. Oftentimes I wonder if he'd choose ISU women's season tickets over men's if he ever had to actually pay to get into Hilton. Similar to the uneasy feeling I get seeing all the grown men wearing CC jerseys on tv.

I don't mind listening to 2GNC to get my local sports/entertainment fix but after it's over I seriously want to punch someone the next time I hear anyone describe something as "fascinating." CW uses that incessantly (it comes across as a crutch of some sort) and it's beyond annoying.

 

[ClubCy]

He's no Iowa fan. Does he have an unhealthy obsession and borderline creepy enjoyment out of following women's college basketball all of a sudden? No doubt about it. Oftentimes I wonder if he'd choose ISU women's season tickets over men's if he ever had to actually pay to get into Hilton. Similar to the uneasy feeling I get seeing all the grown men wearing CC jerseys on tv.

I don't mind listening to 2GNC to get my local sports/entertainment fix but after it's over I seriously want to punch someone the next time I hear anyone describe something as "fascinating." CW uses that incessantly (it comes across as a crutch of some sort) and it's beyond annoying.

This isn’t a shot specifically at anyone but soooo many podcasters use “right?” as a crutch to bridge thoughts and it drives me insane. For example: “Iowa State controlled the tempo from the start…. right? They created a lot of turnovers and made shots and anytime you can do that it’s a recipe for success…. right?”

At work people will lead meetings and talk like this and I want to pull my hair out and then I realize I start doing it too and I want to jump out of my office window.

 

[jcyclonee]

Sig isn’t that bad.

He'd have way more statistics and charts and graphs.

 

[180class]

Everyone wants to preach equality these days. If you're going to compare CC to any male playing the game, let's truly make it equal. Move the 3 point line back to men's distance and play with a men's ball. Anyone who knows anything about basketball, knows that a women's ball is much easier to shoot than a men's.
Moving the line back won't effect her much, but I'm willing to bet she won't shoot anywhere near what she shoots now if she has to use a full size ball.

 

[theshadow]

Move the 3 point line back to men's distance and play with a men's ball. Anyone who knows anything about basketball, knows that a women's ball is much easier to shoot than a men's.
Moving the line back won't effect her much, but I'm willing to bet she won't shoot anywhere near what she shoots now if she has to use a full size ball.

Anyone who knows anything about basketball knows that the collegiate 3-point line is the same distance for men and women.

 

[keepngoal]

Everyone wants to preach equality these days. If you're going to compare CC to any male playing the game, let's truly make it equal. Move the 3 point line back to men's distance and play with a men's ball. Anyone who knows anything about basketball, knows that a women's ball is much easier to shoot than a men's.
Moving the line back won't effect her much, but I'm willing to bet she won't shoot anywhere near what she shoots now if she has to use a full size ball.

This is a really poor take.

 

[VeloClone]

This isn’t a shot specifically at anyone but soooo many podcasters use “right?” as a crutch to bridge thoughts and it drives me insane. For example: “Iowa State controlled the tempo from the start…. right? They created a lot of turnovers and made shots and anytime you can do that it’s a recipe for success…. right?”

At work people will lead meetings and talk like this and I want to pull my hair out and then I realize I start doing it too and I want to jump out of my office window.

How I now picture ClubCy...

 

[carvers4math]

I lived out a state for about a decade, mostly the 1980’s. The impression I got from others was we were all farms and racism. At a NYE party, I convinced someone that they drop a corn cob from the highest grain elevator in Des Moines on NYE. I think the racism was more subdued than it is now. My sons all live out of state now and had a lot of wtf moments from stuff they saw on social media about LSU from Iowa acquaintances.

 

[jcyclonee]

Anyone who knows anything about basketball knows that the collegiate 3-point line is the same distance for men and women.

Not in Portland.

 

[isu81]

CW likes to act like he watches womens basketball outside of ISU and Iowa. And then he botches names all the time like he did with Van Lith last week. It's all show, just like he claims he's a Tulane fan. He's never watched more than a quarter of Tulane football, but he thinks it sounds cool.

I don't doubt he anticipated watching the game. I was excited to watch. But all of the womens basketball love this year is lip service.

CW likes to portray himself as interested/it’s a hobby/etc. of anything he perceives as cool. Usually follows that up with a demonstration of his ignorance on the topic. lol

 

[Cyinthenorth]

CW likes to portray himself as interested/it’s a hobby/etc. of anything he perceives as cool. Usually follows that up with a demonstration of his ignorance on the topic. lol

Appreciate CW for what he is. He is an entertaining media personality. He may not be well read, but he is at least some read, on a lot of different topics

 

[Bret44]

There's been a lot of talk about this, and yes, I completely agree that that's one serious (and *fair)* discussion about Caitlin Clark that needs to be had. There are several very accomplished athletes around the world for whom poor sportsmanship ruined their image - perhaps most notable (and any whiner crying "no one cares about soccer," you can shove it! Over 100 million Americans watch the world's most popular sport and more Americans participate in the sport than in any other nation on this planet! Go cry a river somewhere else) is Zinedine Zidane. One of the greatest of all time! Almost unanimously the greatest player of his generation! But he'll always be remembered for his hot-headedness (literally when it comes to the 2006 World Cup final, his final career game, where he headbutted a player and got himself sent off in possibly the biggest game of his career, costing his entire nation the ultimate crown in the sport)!

And oh, the similarities are also hilariously particular in regards to *how* their hotheadness came out. Zidane was particularly famous for yelling at refs and opponents constantly, getting involved in pointless shoving matches, and committing dumb fouls away from the play that were very costly to him and his teams (i.e., see the 2006 World Cup final example from above - very similar to the incident this whole thread began with, except imagine if that had been the NCAA tournament championship game, Clark had gotten a flagrant 2 and been ejected, and Iowa had went on to lose because of that! Zidane did stuff like that *a lot*)!

Yes, Caitlin needs to be careful if she doesn't want to end up like Zidane! And to be clear, Zidane is still beloved all over the world, but his hot-headedness still leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth! And to be completely fair to *both* athletes, the hotheadness - though inexcusable - actually came from *somewhere.* Yes, both Zidane and Clark, due to their immense talent, have (thoughout their entire lives) regularly been targets of attempts by opponents to seriously injure them (and refs and leagues have had a notorious lack of common sense in dealing with those situations - and please, no one pretend you haven't noticed! This is an ISU forum! We've *all* noticed because it's happened to *our* teams so *so* many times)! That's where all the jawing at refs, jawing at opponents after every bump and foul, and the retaliation to regular fouls with ejection-level fouls *often* comes from (not always! I can't speak for CC, but for example, Zidane's infamous heatbutt happened because the guy he headbutted insulted his sister. Yes, there was some shirt-tugging before, but he in no way felt the guy was intending to injure him. I don't know if there's a similar incident with Clark, but I wouldn't be surprised).

But, once again, like with Zidane, that's no excuse and it *won't* save you in the court of public opinion!

And yes, sadly, there *are* double-standards because she's a woman (yes, *several* male athletes have been notoriously bad sportsmen or awful human beings, yet are still beloved and their attitude is seen as "part of why they're so great." Oof)! That *can't* be ignored! I do agree that more than a bit of the backlash against Clark has indeed been quite sexist. But that being said, there *is* precedent for even revolutionary athletes' legacies being clouded by constant arguing with and yelling at refs and opponents and committing reckless fouls away from the ball! CC needs to be aware of that and find a more constructive way to "fight back" when she feels disrespected, warranted or not.

I'd recommend taking after MJ's example! Whenever he took it personally, he'd trash-talk, yes, but he's far more famous for putting up 50 points and embarrassing the other person. He'd go out of his way *not* to do something reckless so he could stay on the court and embarrass them *with his game.* I'd highly recommend Clark do *that!* If she receives a perceived slight, I'd highly recommend her saying, "Oh, you're gonna pay for that," or "Ok, this is personal now," and then if she's on pace for a 40-point near-triple-double, make it her goal to get a 50-point triple-double and then look right at the opponent she perceived to have slighted her in a clear "you brought this on your team" message, a la MJ during the 90s (and maybe add something innocuous - like the shrug MJ added with *commentator* Magic Johnson in the 1992 Finals, or reciprocating Mutombo's finger wag, like he did after dunking on Dikembe Mutombo in the 1997 playoffs)!

That's my take on this situation! If Clark doesn't want to go down as another Zidane, and wants to go down as the female MJ, *that* is how she needs to approach this!

And for anyone crying, "she's a Hawkeye, stop 'cheering' her on," I responded that claim in another comment! You can find my response to that claim above!

 

[JP4CY]

I think Iowa wins. I'm not saying that as a gotcha either. I watched some of that LSU game and I don't think that team has GREAT chemistry. That transfer point guard from Louisville just had weird body language with the team.

NAILED IT

 

[Cyhig]

How I now picture ClubCy...

I know, right?

 

[Kinch]

Gambing is illegal at Bushwood. And I never slice.