I dislike Kobe more than anyone, but I don't believe for one single second that Kobe rapped that girl.
The official 'I hate Pau Gasol' thread
- Thread starter snowcraig2.0
- Start date
I dislike Kobe more than anyone, but I don't believe for one single second that Kobe rapped that girl.
Agreed, Pietrus made a hard foul to prevent the dunk and Gasol made him look stupid by throwing it down hard. If it had been me I would have barked at Pietrus too. This series is finished. Lakers might win by 40 the next game...
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UziUhf1ukw]YouTube - Shaq says: "Kobe, tell me how my ass taste!?" 6/22/08 @ club[/ame]
Regarding Jordan:
Best player ever, no contest. No one has ever been able to take over a game like him. He was more athletic, a better defender, stronger, a better shooter, and a better rebounder than Kobe. Kobe might be a slightly better ball handler, and that's about it.
Regarding Pippen:
One of the best small forwards of all time. During the two years Jordan retired Pippen averaged 22 ppg, 8 rebounds, 6 assist, 3 steals, and 1 block and lead the Bulls to the playoffs each or those years. Anyone who says he needed Jordan to be great is simply WRONG. His career numbers are greatly tarnished by the last few injury riddled seasons he had.
Regarding Gasol:
His whiny attitude on the court just annoys the hell out of me. He does the same thing duncan does.
Best player ever, no contest. No one has ever been able to take over a game like him. He was more athletic, a better defender, stronger, a better shooter, and a better rebounder than Kobe. Kobe might be a slightly better ball handler, and that's about it.
Regarding Pippen:
One of the best small forwards of all time. During the two years Jordan retired Pippen averaged 22 ppg, 8 rebounds, 6 assist, 3 steals, and 1 block and lead the Bulls to the playoffs each or those years. Anyone who says he needed Jordan to be great is simply WRONG. His career numbers are greatly tarnished by the last few injury riddled seasons he had.
Regarding Gasol:
His whiny attitude on the court just annoys the hell out of me. He does the same thing duncan does.
He was great, no doubt, but that's impossible to know. LeBron is well on his way to being just as good or better, but it's two different eras.
I think the difference between the Lakers without Kobe vs the Bulls without Pippen is a stark one. Because, Phil Jackson's offense was completely designed for Jordan. And when Jordan "retired" the first time, then Pippen stepped into that position. Not bad, moving another Dream team player over.
Now, Kobe's had as good or better of a 2nd guy in Shaq or Pau. The difference is, that offense is still centered on Kobe. And when Kobe is out, who takes over? Now, if the Lakers had, say Carmelo or LeBron at the 3 now, instead of Pau as the 2nd stud, I'd have to say the Lakers would have similar success that they are having now.
It's all subjective, and at the end of the day Pau Gasol is extremely difficult to look at (coming full circle in the thread...)
Except for Kareem...
http://www.cyclonefanatic.com/forum...al-i-hate-pau-gasol-thread-4.html#post1095517
Kareem:
All-time NBA scoring leader
All-time NBA made FG leader
Averaged 78 games per year for 20 years
6× NBA Champion (1971, 1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988)
6× NBA MVP (1971-1972, 1974, 1976-1977, 1980)
19× NBA All-Star (1970-1977, 1979-1989)
2× NBA Finals MVP (1971, 1985)
10× All-NBA First Team Selection (1971-1973, 1974, 1976-1977, 1980-1981, 1984, 1986)
5× All-NBA Second Team Selection (1970, 1978-1979, 1983, 1985)
5× NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (1974-1975, 1979-1981)
6× NBA All-Defensive Second Team Selection (1970-1971, 1976-1978, 1984)
1970 NBA Rookie of the Year
1970 NBA All-Rookie Team
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
3× NCAA Men's Basketball Champion (1967), (1968), (1969)
3× NCAA Basketball Tournament MOP (1967), (1968), (1969)
Jordan:
6× NBA Champion (1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998)
5× NBA MVP (1988, 1991, 1992, 1996, 1998)
14× NBA All-Star (1985-1993, 1996-1998, 2002-2003)
6× NBA Finals MVP (1991-1993, 1996-1998)
1× NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1988)
10× All-NBA First Team Selection (1987-1993, 1996-1998)
1× All-NBA Second Team Selection (1985)
9× NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (1988-1993, 1996-1998)
1985 NBA Rookie of the Year
1985 NBA All-Rookie Team
3× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1988, 1996, 1998)
2× NBA Slam Dunk Contest winner (1987, 1988)
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
1× NCAA Men's Basketball Champion (1982)
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Those are all great numbers, but Kareem didn't retire twice and miss 4 seasons. If Jordan doesn't do that, I'd go as far as to say that most of the numbers would be the same or better. Proving that numbers don't mean everything. Not to mention that Jordan was the MVP of every Finals he won. Whereas Kareem was just twice.
He had a guy named Magic that played alongside him for those titles that won the MVP, league and Finals along the way. Jordan had Pippen, but how many MVP's did he win while playing alongside Jordan? If you averaged out these numbers by seasons played, and base the better player ever on these numbers, Jordan clearly is the best of these two players...
Haha you are so wrong. Look at the Bulls record when Jordan went to play baseball. 55-27!!!
I repeat 55-27!! Yeah but those guys sucked without MJ. What a joke of a world some of you live in.
You guys think the Lakers or Cavs would go 55-27 w/o Kobe or Lebron?!? Get outta here
Probably the best. But it is close and easily debateable. Oscar Robertson. Wilt. Kareem. Russell. Magic. ETC
I'm pretty sure LeBron never shot the ball when the Cavs were up by 7(?) with three seconds left. Almost any player would let the clock run out in that situation.
:biglaugh: If Lebron was wide open under the hoop. No way would he dunk it
Give me a break
I think the whole Jordan/Pippen vs Shaq/Kobe debate is a stupid one.
The NBA is a superstar league. Every one of the Bulls' championships, Jordan was the man, and Pippen was part of the supporting cast. With the Lakers' previous 3 championships, Shaq was the man, and Kobe was their Scottie Pippen.
The NBA is a superstar league. Every one of the Bulls' championships, Jordan was the man, and Pippen was part of the supporting cast. With the Lakers' previous 3 championships, Shaq was the man, and Kobe was their Scottie Pippen.
Precisely. Longevity is part of greatness. Kareem had longevity on the court...Jordan didn't. Kareem didn't need time off...actually he probably did, because he suffered severe migraines, but he never took the time off. Kareem was a major contributor to title-winning teams in his 18th and 19th years.
We'll never know, will we, since Jordan didn't play for 20 straight seasons. Also, wasn't Jordan's knee pretty well trashed at the end of his career (playing 2/3 the games that Kareem did)? We don't even know that he could have played as long as Kareem did.
But here's what we do know...Kareem played for 20 straight seasons (plus three years of college before that), and Jordan didn't.
And that's what makes what Kareem did all the more impressive. He accomplished what he did while not always being the primary focus of his team.
Except that this isn't a valid method to determine greatness, because it doesn't account for career longevity. And even if you did look at career average numbers, it's not obvious that Jordan was clearly the better player. Although, Jordan scored about 20% more points per game, Kareem was a better FG% shooter. If Kareem had taken as many shots per game as Jordan did, with his better FG%, Kareem's PPG would have increased by 5.2 PPG (if my math is right), and be nearly identical to Jordan's.
Kareem nearly doubled Jordan's rebounding average. Jordan had more steals, while Kareem had more blocks.
There's more to the game than just high-flying dunks and scoring points.
........G....FG...FGA..FG%..FT.FTA..FT%
Kareem 1560 10.2 18.1 .559 4.3 6.0 .721
Jordan 1072 11.4 22.9 .497 6.8 8.2 .835
........TRB.AST.STL.BLK.TOV.PF..PTS
Kareem 11.2 3.6 0.9 2.6 2.7 3.0 24.6
Jordan 06.2 5.3 2.3 0.8 2.7 2.6 30.1
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This.
At the 50 greatest players banquet at the All-Star game, they were discussing between themselves who was the greatest. The story goes it pretty much came down to Wilt and Jordan.
Finally, Wilt chimes in that they specifically changed the rules to make it harder for him to dominate, while they changed the rules to make it easier for Jordan to dominate. Supposedly cheers went up and that was the end of the debate.
No doubt they changed the rules to benefit Jordan. The rules have changed a little today to where it is harder to score as much. But the Jordan lovers will never admit that
Jordan played when NBA scoring was depressed. Remember the "thug-ball" Knicks, Pistons and Heat?!?!
You are out of your skull if you think the NBA is trying to make it harder to score ... they've been trying to make it more highscoring since the mid-80s.
But Kobe-sucklers will never admit that.
