The Dan McCarney Method

[jbhtexas]

Regarding Walden v. McCarney, yeah, Walden had a winning season that didn't get a bowl, but it was only one winning season. Danny Mac had 5 winning seasons.

Four winning seasons. 7-7 is not a winning season (although that one clearly should have been a winning season). He also had the same number of losing seasons as Walden (7), granted that most of them were at the beginning of his tenure...

If not for another unpleasant distraction going on at ISU in 2003, the 7-7 2002 season-end crash followed up by the 2-10 2003 season probably should have been the end for DM at ISU...

 

[Al_4_State]

Four winning seasons. 7-7 is not a winning season (although that one clearly should have been a winning season). He also had the same number of losing seasons as Walden (7), granted that most of them were at the beginning of his tenure...

Forgot we played 14 games that year.

I'm no McCarney defender (obviously), I'm just saying that in all fairness he accomplished quite a bit more than Walden.

 

[rebecacy]

Isn't the bottom line wins and losses?

As I posted in the link below, McCarney and Walden had very similar records at ISU. If McCarney was getting better talent but still losing, isn't that an indictment of his coaching abilities?

http://www.cyclonefanatic.com/forum...h-dmac-rivals-com-homepage-3.html#post2294313

Jim Walden .335 overall .313 conference over 8 years
Dan McCarney .397 overall .284 conference over 12 years

Wow -- this is not what I expected -- Thx for putting that together and I agree 12 years puts one in a position where you have to stand on your own record.

 

[rebecacy]

Four winning seasons. 7-7 is not a winning season (although that one clearly should have been a winning season). He also had the same number of losing seasons as Walden (7), granted that most of them were at the beginning of his tenure...

If not for another unpleasant distraction going on at ISU in 2003, the 7-7 2002 season-end crash followed up by the 2-10 2003 season probably should have been the end for DM at ISU...

I remember 2003 - as the year I tailgated before the game and the last 2 or 3 quarters. Just could not watch.

 

[Clonefan94]

100 Reasons To Be A Cyclone: Day 66 | ISU Football

This inspired me to bring up some conversation about Dan. I loved Dan. He represented us well and I will always be thankful for that. However, its summer downtime and we all know what that means... gripes and what could have beens.

After watching the 2000 highlights that was previously posted, I got really nostalgic about some great times we had, but it also brought in some let downs. The last few years Dan was here were some awful years. Did he lose the spark? Or was he just too comfortable to notice the crap going on. Why was he so loyal to a playbook, support staff, and culture that cost him wins?

We had some standout players on teams that underperformed. How far did that put us behind in the minds of recruits? I give PR and staff a ton of credit for building excitement and morale. Even more so on players that would have experienced the downward spiralling end of DM and the heartless showing of GC.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. It's not a knock on Dan at all, but he benefited a lot from a very down North in the early 2000s. If Nebraska were as good as it had been or even as good as they were the last 3 years, we wouldn't have beaten them, Kansas State slide and Colorado falling off hard were all wins we wouldn't have had if they were the same teams they were in the mid 90s.

Dan did a lot for this program, but his streak of Bowls, imo, were a perfect storm that came together for him, but sputtered out when it really counted. I wonder if beating Mizzou or Kansas, and getting to the Big XII championship would have done anything for his confidence and changed his coaching style to a win first attitude, instead of a play not to lose attitude if it would have been different. It just seamed that with every let down, he became more conservative in the way he coached a football game.

Jeez, I can't believe I commented on this again.

 

[CarolinaCy]

Four winning seasons. 7-7 is not a winning season (although that one clearly should have been a winning season). He also had the same number of losing seasons as Walden (7), granted that most of them were at the beginning of his tenure...

If not for another unpleasant distraction going on at ISU in 2003, the 7-7 2002 season-end crash followed up by the 2-10 2003 season probably should have been the end for DM at ISU...

Yeah, not many coaches (who have been on the job for 8-9 years) can finish a season 1-6, then go 2-10 the following year and still remain employed.

Which reminds me, didn't Mac get a contract extension after the 2002 season? Or maybe it was during, I can't seem to remember.

 

[rebecacy]

Yeah, not many coaches (who have been on the job for 8-9 years) can finish a season 1-6, then go 2-10 the following year and still remain employed.

Which reminds me, didn't Mac get a contract extension after the 2002 season? Or maybe it was during, I can't seem to remember.

I like to call that year and a half "CyLyte"

 

[azn4cy]

I remember 2003 - as the year I tailgated before the game and the last 2 or 3 quarters. Just could not watch.

You know it was awful when our announcers would call it "Flynn on the keeper, loss of 2" when in reality, it was a sack.

 

[jbhtexas]

I've said this before and I'll say it again. It's not a knock on Dan at all, but he benefited a lot from a very down North in the early 2000s. If Nebraska were as good as it had been or even as good as they were the last 3 years, we wouldn't have beaten them, Kansas State slide and Colorado falling off hard were all wins we wouldn't have had if they were the same teams they were in the mid 90s.

Dan did a lot for this program, but his streak of Bowls, imo, were a perfect storm that came together for him, but sputtered out when it really counted. I wonder if beating Mizzou or Kansas, and getting to the Big XII championship would have done anything for his confidence and changed his coaching style to a win first attitude, instead of a play not to lose attitude if it would have been different. It just seamed that with every let down, he became more conservative in the way he coached a football game.

Obviously, I'm not a DM supporter, but this issue right here (even beyond his record itself) is why I don't understand why some fans hold him in such high regard. With all the turmoil and coaching changes going on in the Big 12 North in 2001 and forward, DM had the one "stable" program...Pinkel came on in 2001 at MU...Mangino came on a KU in 2002...Snyder started to fall at KSU in 2004...Barnett started having his problems at CU in 2004 and was gone in 2005...NU was going through the Solich/Callahan transition in 2003.

As a "stable" program with a tenured coach, ISU should have capitalized and plowed through that mess to the top of the Big 12 North. Instead, the best that ever came was 4-4 and no appearances in the Big 12 championship game. This was probably the best "perfect storm" opportunity in modern ISU FB history for ISU to challenge for a conference title, and it was flat out blown.

Apparently ISU was really in no better position than any of those other teams.

 

[cloneswereall]

Obviously, I'm not a DM supporter, but this issue right here is why I don't understand why some fans hold him in such high regard. With all the turmoil and coaching changes going on in the Big 12 North in 2001 and forward, DM had the one "stable" program...Pinkel came on in 2001 at MU...Mangino came on a KU in 2002...Snyder started to fall at KSU in 2004...Barnett started having his problems at CU in 2004 and was gone in 2005...NU was going through the Solich/Callahan transition in 2003.

As a "stable" program with a tenured coach, ISU should have capitalized and plowed through that mess to the top of the Big 12 North. Instead, the best that ever came was 4-4 and no appearances in the Big 12 championship game. This was probably the best opportunity in modern ISU FB history for ISU to challenge for a conference title, and it was flat out blown.

Apparently ISU was really in no better position than any of those other teams.

Yea, this. Looking back, I honestly don't understand how the teams of 02, 04 and 05 only got to 7 wins. Those teams were more than capable of getting to double-digit wins.

 

[Omaha Cy]

Love Dan. Did a fine job building the program up from absolutely nothing... unfortunately he also crash landed on the way out with a bare cupboard. Once most of the 05 squad graduated, the party was over....no one realized it at the time

To pump a little sunshine into the fray...I'd like to point out that most of Dan's talented teams(01/02/04/05) were only able to win a few more games per year than CPR has while he's been cleaning up Dan & Gene's roster messes.

 

[CykoAGR]

Isn't the bottom line wins and losses?

As I posted in the link below, McCarney and Walden had very similar records at ISU. If McCarney was getting better talent but still losing, isn't that an indictment of his coaching abilities?

http://www.cyclonefanatic.com/forum...h-dmac-rivals-com-homepage-3.html#post2294313

I'm not a DMac appologist but he did average almost 1 more win per year compared to Walden. I guess you can say that I do respect him for bringing some kind of tradition to ISU. First BG in 22 years and a BG in 5 of 6 years is the best stretch ever at ISU. DMac owns 50% of the bowl apperances in ISU FB history as a head coach. Granted he was never able to get over the hump and actually compete for a conference title or a bowl game that really mattered (other than maybe 2000).

DMac was far from great as a HC, and his teams rarely if ever overacheived and I think that is why so many people have a negative perception of him and I will not argue that this shouldnt be the case. However as it stands I think he has done more for ISU FB than anyone else up to now. Its really a statement of our programs lack of success historically than a compliment to DMac, but it is the reality. I think CPR has the potential to blow him out of the water if he is given the time and resources

 

[laxtonto]

So then I should be ecstatic that UNT has a pretty established OC that DMac made Co-HC with full control of the O to keep him from trying to grab a HC job?

 

[CykoAGR]

Obviously, I'm not a DM supporter, but this issue right here (even beyond his record itself) is why I don't understand why some fans hold him in such high regard. With all the turmoil and coaching changes going on in the Big 12 North in 2001 and forward, DM had the one "stable" program...Pinkel came on in 2001 at MU...Mangino came on a KU in 2002...Snyder started to fall at KSU in 2004...Barnett started having his problems at CU in 2004 and was gone in 2005...NU was going through the Solich/Callahan transition in 2003.

As a "stable" program with a tenured coach, ISU should have capitalized and plowed through that mess to the top of the Big 12 North. Instead, the best that ever came was 4-4 and no appearances in the Big 12 championship game. This was probably the best "perfect storm" opportunity in modern ISU FB history for ISU to challenge for a conference title, and it was flat out blown.

Apparently ISU was really in no better position than any of those other teams.

I agree, we had potentially our best chance to make a run and we failed.

 

[Al_4_State]

So then I should be ecstatic that UNT has a pretty established OC that DMac made Co-HC with full control of the O to keep him from trying to grab a HC job?

The thing you should be worried about that is that McCarney made the same mistakes, regardless of who the coordinator was. He will turn UNT around, and in a league like the Sun Belt (no offense), he should be able do well. I don't know if he'll be able to get consistent league titles, or be able to knock off the big dogs though. He only beat a ranked team twice at ISU, I think (don't quote me on that).

 

[ISUCyclone06]

The thing you should be worried about that is that McCarney made the same mistakes, regardless of who the coordinator was. He will turn UNT around, and in a league like the Sun Belt (no offense), he should be able do well. I don't know if he'll be able to get consistent league titles, or be able to knock off the big dogs though. He only beat a ranked team twice at ISU, I think (don't quote me on that).

I will always count the Florida State game as a W.

Which brings me to the best thing DMac did for ISU....Senaca Wallace!

 

[cloneswereall]

So then I should be ecstatic that UNT has a pretty established OC that DMac made Co-HC with full control of the O to keep him from trying to grab a HC job?

He's a good enough coach, but he's way too loyal to the guys working under him when they become babbling idiots on gameday. Marty Fine should have been fired for having his head up his own *** long before everything fell apart.

My prediction for him at NT: He'll do well for about 5-6 years and plateau because he won't fire dead weight, and will stick to whoever is holding him in the hot seat (that's after a 2-3 year growing pains period).

 

[d4nim4l]

The thing you should be worried about that is that McCarney made the same mistakes, regardless of who the coordinator was. He will turn UNT around, and in a league like the Sun Belt (no offense), he should be able do well. I don't know if he'll be able to get consistent league titles, or be able to knock off the big dogs though. He only beat a ranked team twice at ISU, I think (don't quote me on that).

Close. 3.

Nebraska 2002
Iowa 2005
Colorado 2005

Scary enough Rhoads already has one (Texas) and taken two to the wire (Kansas 2009 and Nebraska 2010).

 

[cyhiphopp]

So then I should be ecstatic that UNT has a pretty established OC that DMac made Co-HC with full control of the O to keep him from trying to grab a HC job?

I think DMac is a great fit for UNT. He has a charismatic presence that is good for building up programs. I think that being in the Sun Belt will help him sustain success once he builds the program up. It seems like UNT has an Athletic Department that is commited to putting money into the football program which will deffinitely help. DMac is good a building up a program. His main challenges come from his coaching style.
DMac has a style that can be very good for programs that are trying to build/rebuild. He seems to be able to get good production out of lower level talent. At ISU, he was conservative to a fault. If he had a 7 point lead he would go into immediate prevent mode, run it up the middle most every play, and put tremendous pressure on his D until they broke. He found ways to lose at times unfortunately.
He is also good at finding diamonds int he rough from time to time. At ISU he took a lot of chances on guys who were risks to qualify or had other issues. When those guys worked out, he looked like a genius. When they didn't make it to campus or had issues once they got here, they were huge setbacks for the program.

I think being at UNT will help him with some of the issues. In the Big12, he was never able to consistently put good teams together. I think at UNT he can build a program where, even if they don't have their best team, they can still stay in the top half of the conference. The DFW area will be huge for him. He doesn't have to steal recruits from Big12 teams, he just has to convince a few kids to come start for him rather than being a backup elsewhere and turn some 2 stars into contributors. Having an established OC should help him with his offensive play calling. Hopefully your OC can convince him to take some chances and mix it up even with a lead.

I wish DMac well.

 

[khaal53]

Close. 3.

Nebraska 2002
Iowa 2005
Colorado 2005

Scary enough Rhoads already has one (Texas) and taken two to the wire (Kansas 2009 and Nebraska 2010).

DMac was 3-40 against Ranked opponents. Other close calls:

TCU, 2005, 24-27
Texas, 1999, 41-44
Colorado, 1996, 42-49
Iowa, 2004, 10-17
Florida State, 2002, 31-38
Kansas State, 1999, 28-35
Northern Illinois, 2003, 16-24
Iowa, 2006, 17-27

Every other loss to a ranked team in the McCarney era was by 11 or more points.