After watching two Mountain West Conference teams take apart two of the best teams in what was thought to be a strong Pac 10, how good is the MWC? TCU thumped both BYU and Utah, and if they handle Boise State it's hard not to think they may be the best team in the country, which is what many thought about Utah last year. And Utah's freshman qb is fast becoming a star, and we get to face them the next couple of years. Yikes.
TCU and the Mountain West
- Thread starter CYKOFAN
- Start date
BYU has always had a good program with a history of great quarterbacks. With the recent emergence of Utah and TCU I would say that the Mountain West has just as much of an argument as an automatic qualifier as any of the current BCS conferences.
I'm really looking forward to seeing the Utes come to Ames next Fall and seeing what we can do against them.
I'm really looking forward to seeing the Utes come to Ames next Fall and seeing what we can do against them.
the arguement craig james made last night during the utah game was the MWC doesn't deserve an automatic qualifying bid because the conference is top heavy and those teams aren't challenged on a weekly basis like the power conferences are.
the arguement craig james made last night during the utah game was the MWC doesn't deserve an automatic qualifying bid because the conference is top heavy and those teams aren't challenged on a weekly basis like the power conferences are.
I understand what James was saying, but at the same time I think the worst teams in any conference are all pretty bad. Colorado got smoked by a fairly mediocre Toledo team, Illinois lost to a run of the mill Fresno State team, Louisville and Syracuse are both awful, and I don't think too highly of Vanderbilt or Mississippi State either.
That argument doesn't hold much water for me.
I understand what James was saying, but at the same time I think the worst teams in any conference are all pretty bad. Colorado got smoked by a fairly mediocre Toledo team, Illinois lost to a run of the mill Fresno State team, Louisville and Syracuse are both awful, and I don't think too highly of Vanderbilt or Mississippi State either.
That argument doesn't hold much water for me.
then where do you draw the line? The WAC has boise state... The Conference USA has Tulsa, Houston, Rice, East Carolina...
I think that is kind of a big reason why they aren't adding MWC to the BCS
I think that is kind of a big reason why they aren't adding MWC to the BCS
I wonder though how many football teams want to schedule schools like this though as a non conference. If you put Boise State, or TCU, or BYU in any stadium in the country they can win. Period.
So much football now a days is lose one game and you are out of the national title hunt so they are scared about it. Look at Iowa, we stopped them from a national title shot this decade.
The Mountain West is top heavy. BYU, Utah, and TCU are consistently good to very good, but after that the conference is usually mediocre to downright bad.
Look at this year. Air Force is the 4th best team in the MWC and is decent, but after that you have Wyoming who is an okay mid-major but wouldn't be bowling in a BCS conference, UNLV, San Diego State, and Colorado State who are bad, and New Mexico who is just terrible. Every BCS conference team in the country except maybe Washington State could finish 5th or at least 6th in the Mountain West.
Look at this year. Air Force is the 4th best team in the MWC and is decent, but after that you have Wyoming who is an okay mid-major but wouldn't be bowling in a BCS conference, UNLV, San Diego State, and Colorado State who are bad, and New Mexico who is just terrible. Every BCS conference team in the country except maybe Washington State could finish 5th or at least 6th in the Mountain West.
I really think the Mountan West is better than the big 10, even when you consider top to bottom. If Oregon handles Ohio State like I think they will, I'll be even more convinced because it's pretty obvious TCU, BYU and Utah are as good as or better than anybody in the Pac 10.
That's just Big Ten hate talking. I might take TCU, BYU, and Utah over Ohio State, Iowa, and Penn State (even though Iowa-BYU and Penn State-Utah are probably even match-ups), but after that it's not even close. Air Force is the 4th place MWC team and they lost to Minnesota. I have a really hard time believing Michigan, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, and Michigan State wouldn't beat Wyoming, UNLV, San Diego State, Colorado State, and New Mexico. And that's without even looking at Wisconsin and Northwestern.
Ohio State vs. TCU: moderate advantage TCU
Iowa vs. BYU: 50-50, maybe slight BYU
Penn State vs. Utah: 50-50, maybe slight Penn State
Michigan State vs. Air Force: slight Michigan State
Purdue vs. Wyoming: moderate Purdue
Minnesota vs. UNLV: moderate Minnesota
Illinois vs. San Diego State: moderate Illinois
Michigan vs. New Mexico: heavy Michigan
Indiana vs. Colorado State: moderate Indiana
If you take out the two 4-4 teams (Michigan State and Purdue) and put in the two 5-3 teams (Northwestern and Wisconsin) it gets even uglier in favor of the Big Ten.
And they still wouldn't have gone to a bowl if they played in a BCS conference. Congrats to them for getting it done, but they aren't a good team. Here are their wins that got them to a bowl:
Weber State by 7
UNLV by 3
at Florida Atlantic by 2
New Mexico by 24
at San Diego State by 3
at Colorado State by 1
They didn't beat a bowl team in the regular season. Four of their regular season wins were by a total of nine points, another was by seven over an FCS school, and the other was a blowout against possibly the worst team in FBS.
They were exited to be in the New Mexico Bowl and beat the less excited Fresno State Bulldogs in double overtime. Again, congrats to Wyoming, but they still aren't a good team.
How is that really any different than any other conference, especially this year?
Pac 10 - Oregon and Oregon St (which lost to a MWC team). Even USC sucked this year.
Big 12 - Texas, OSU, and Nebraska. No one else is really even worth talking about (yah, I know, this is an ISU fan site - but not relevant to the discussion at hand)
Big 10 - Ohio St, Iowa, Penn St. Maybe Wisconsin.
SEC - Florida, Alabama, LSU, Ole Miss. Even this strong conference is down this year.
ACC - Georgia Tech, Clemson, Virginia Tech. Does anyone else even play football in the conference?
Big East - Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, maybe West Virginia.
Excuse me if I think the dismissal of the MWC is acceptable simply because it is top-heavy is ridiculous. Not only is every conference top-heavy, but how many years in a row is the MWC going to have to own bowl season before they get their respect? Or own the Pac 10 like they did last year? Or embarrass an SEC team in a BCS bowl? The only reason why they're not treated on the same level is because all those schools are "smaller" schools (which is a laugh because Ole Miss' enrollment is in the neighborhood of 15,000) from states with less population and less money, and have just decided they don't want to fork over the big time revenue that the MWC deserves.
You know, it's not like we wouldn't be in the same position if it weren't for the fact that we were extremely lucky that we forced 8 turnovers against Nebraska. Actually, we wouldn't be in the same position as Wyoming - they'd be bowling and we'd be staying home.
Put TCU in the Sec, Put Utah in the Big 12, Put BYU in the Big Ten and these teams will have more than 1 or 2 losses. Same goes with Boise State put them in one of those conferences and they will be the same. These teams are good and the mountain west is pretty good. But just imagine these teams playing high quality teams week in and week out. They would be playing the nations top recruits if they were put in one of these conferences which means they would have to get up for each and every single game. I just cant see that happening.
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There are very weak teams in every conference. Teams in the BCS Conferences aren't playing high quality teams week in and week out. For example just how many high quality teams did Iowa State play this season? Iowa, Nebraska, and that's really the extent of the high quality teams they played this season.
You forgot Oky State and Missouri isn't that bad. KU was actually rated when we played them as well.
I really hate arguments like this. Not many conferences have more than about 1/3 of thier teams that are that strong. The exception might be the SEC, and on occassion, the Big 11, Big 12, and Pac 10. People can argue that if these Mountain West, Conference USA, and other small conference teams had to play in the bigger conferences, they would not win as many games, but that is a baseless statement. If these schools played in those conferences with the same teams they have now that may be true. However, if they played in the bigger conferences, their recruiting and revenue situations would also improve, so who is to say how strong they would be?
Does Texas truly play quality competition for their level each week? How about Florida or Alabama this year? Did Ohio State, Iowa and Penn State play high-level competition each week?
I just think these other conferences need to be given a lot more credit than they are by the analysts and others. Fact so far this year is that 2 MWC teams have beaten 2 Pac 10 teams in bowls, and beaten them pretty convincingly. Wyoming beat a very good Fresno State team. The lower level teams in that conference this year were teams like UNLV (which ISU has not exactly dominated) and Colorado State (who had 3 wins this year, including one against Colorado).
The Mountain West deserves a lot more credit then they are getting, IMO. I would love to have seen TCU take on Florida, Texas, or Alabama. Instead, they get put against Boise State.....so no matter who wins, it won't mean much on the national scale. Pretty sad.
People still downplay Boise State too....which amazes me. Here is an undefeated team, who beat the Pac 10 conference champion Oregon handily (yes, make all the first game, blah, blah, blah excuses): a team (Oregon) that most are picking to beat the Big 10 conference champion.
Personally, I just think the whole BCS thing is nonsense. These schools from supposedly "lesser" conferences to me are embarrassing the big boys. That is why we are getting 2 undefeated teams in TCU and Boise against each other rather than playing someone from the BCS schools.
Does Texas truly play quality competition for their level each week? How about Florida or Alabama this year? Did Ohio State, Iowa and Penn State play high-level competition each week?
I just think these other conferences need to be given a lot more credit than they are by the analysts and others. Fact so far this year is that 2 MWC teams have beaten 2 Pac 10 teams in bowls, and beaten them pretty convincingly. Wyoming beat a very good Fresno State team. The lower level teams in that conference this year were teams like UNLV (which ISU has not exactly dominated) and Colorado State (who had 3 wins this year, including one against Colorado).
The Mountain West deserves a lot more credit then they are getting, IMO. I would love to have seen TCU take on Florida, Texas, or Alabama. Instead, they get put against Boise State.....so no matter who wins, it won't mean much on the national scale. Pretty sad.
People still downplay Boise State too....which amazes me. Here is an undefeated team, who beat the Pac 10 conference champion Oregon handily (yes, make all the first game, blah, blah, blah excuses): a team (Oregon) that most are picking to beat the Big 10 conference champion.
Personally, I just think the whole BCS thing is nonsense. These schools from supposedly "lesser" conferences to me are embarrassing the big boys. That is why we are getting 2 undefeated teams in TCU and Boise against each other rather than playing someone from the BCS schools.
The difference is that Colorado, Baylor, and Iowa State would all have better records than Wyoming against their schedule. In fact, Colorado blew Wyoming out. Yes, I know Colorado State beat Colorado, but that was a rivalry game and Colorado was a lot better by the end of the season.
The bottom half of the Mountain West just doesn't compare to the bottom half of any BCS conference including the Big East. TCU is as good as anybody IMO, and BYU and Utah are comparable to Cotton Bowl and Holiday Bowl type teams, but there aren't any Alamo/Champs Sports/Car Care Bowl type teams. 4th place Air Force is comparable to the teams in the Insight Bowl. Wyoming is in the New Mexico Bowl, but wouldn't be in a bowl in a BCS conference. Then everybody else in the conference is comparable to Vanderbilt, Maryland, and Washington State. Roughly half the teams in the MWC would only have 1-4 wins each if they played in a BCS conference.
The MWC can be a BCS conference if they add Boise State (and possibly two more like Fresno State, Nevada, or Houston) and if the bottom half improves. Wyoming and Colorado State (despite the setback this year) have good coaches and will get better. San Diego State has a great coaching staff and has a chance to improve to the 4th best program IMO. UNLV also hired a coach with a good resume. New Mexico has a ways to go. If two out of the bottom six start winning 7-9 games per year and they add Boise State, I don't know how you could keep them out.
