Defense is how ISU has been successful the last two years.
You're judt going to have to get over that aspect I guess.
Stop!
- Thread starter Irish1
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Defense is how ISU has been successful the last two years.
You're judt going to have to get over that aspect I guess.
I will say this. I do think our team is veteran enough to figure out how a game is being officiated and adjust. I know our M.O. is to get into you and guard and I'm not sure you can take us out of that. But I also see some really silly fouls that you aren't going to get away with in a tightly officiated game. When they are calling a game like that, you just have to be smarter and stay away from cheap ones.
And Ward's kind of all over the place for positioning.
I wonder if more goes into it than just being on the team and tall.
Yep, and absolutely times rob is just handling a big on the defensive boards to allow Caleb or someone to grab the board.
'Member when CFers called this 'just standing there doing nothing' back in November after a win in Portland?
Maybe you haven't said it, but I have certainly seen people say it seems that opposing teams always go on runs when Jones comes in. But anyway, why shouldn't we be thinking about how well a team performs when a player is on the court? If the team performs roughly as well with Robert Jones on the court as when Osun is on the court, shouldn't the question be why that is? (Especially if Osun is *that* much better than Jones?) Maybe it is just random chance, or maybe it's a correlated factor that Jones/Osun have no control over, or maybe it really is that Jones has an impact that the box score can't capture.
It's funny you bring up that example vs. Tech with Grill's back-to-back threes. I looked at the highlights of the possessions I believe you're referring to (video here, starting before the first three). I agree that Jones had nothing to do with the first one. (Although his screen did result in a switch that might have contributed to it, but Tech really didn't need to switch that screen and it was bad defense regardless.) But the second sequence was a Robert Jones block on solid help defense, resulting in a runout where Jones hustled down the court and flashed into the lane, helping to hold #22 there, which was the reason for Grill being open. Now, did #22 need to stay in the lane that whole time? Maybe not, but he probably would have been out on Grill if Jones hadn't been hustling. That rim run is absolutely something that Jones did with a positive impact, but it can't show up in the box score.
I'm a huge proponent of statistics, but they need to be used in the correct context with the correct caveats. If you're citing DBPM (and ignoring the stats that others have brought up) without thinking about why those numbers might look the way they look, then you aren't doing it particularly honestly.
The thing is there really aren't 'stats', rather a single stat. When an overwhelming amount of advanced analytics, and even basic stats, have Bob at the bottom of the conference, I'm going to use that (and my eyes) over an obviously flawed defensive rating and a plus/- rating that doesn't necessarily gage Bob's singular impact.
Last night I thought the biggest issue, outside of fouls, was Holmes' defense. He was routinely out of position, late, or weakly fought through screens. It almost completely, if not completely, negated his impact at the other end of the floor.
Jones is a borderline dirty player. I get it, that's how he levels the playing field. But he's always hooking and holding, dragging his guy to the floor, shoving for no reason. That said. he got screwed on two awful calls last night.
Yep, Holmes is our weakest guard defender. He loses his assignment more than anyone and doesn't have the athleticism to stay in front of good guards. Not for a lack of effort, but I noticed him losing his guy on the backside last night a lot.
Agreed with all but the effort. I'm not saying he's sandbagging but he has several lax habits that, when combined with his footwork, make him a liability. He might not be able to control that, but he most definitely can have better spacing, awareness, and have some better efforts away from the ball. It often looks like he's half-assing when in an off the ball situation, then busts his ass to close out (when he's already conceded too much ground), or rotate over to his man. By then it's too late. He was often the most egregious offender of over-helping on defense. Senselessly doubling or tripling someone who's well covered completely screws up the defense.
I should clarify that the only standpoint that I'm defending Jones's stats are on the defensive end. His offensive stats are definitely awful and offensive rebounding is really the only positive in his offensive game. But his defense and effort are clearly valued by Otzelberger and are why he plays as much as he does. Similarly to Kalscheur's play last year, Jones's contribution is valued beyond the numbers.
I do think it's funny that you're calling the adjusted defensive rating obviously flawed, but not the DBPM that you've cited previously. As far as plus/minus, I'll try to ask the question from a different angle. If Robert Jones is so detrimental to the team, why doesn't the team play worse when he is in? Plus/minus doesn't gauge Jones's singular impact, but the whole point is that any impact he has isn't through his singular play, it's through his effort and fit in the system that benefits the team.
I think this is a really good take. Defense is pretty much impossible to gauge via analytics and "tape" is about and subjective as a metric can get.
My big thing with Rob is that I just don't know why his usage rate stays where it is given his almost incredible inefficiency. There's just got to be a better way to maximize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses more than using him almost exactly as Osun is used.
Plus, I think people mostly just don't really grasp quite how poor his numbers offensively have been in the B12, but that's mostly just people who don't understand or like analytics.
Regardless, he wouldn't be playing over Ward unless the staff prefers him. I'm curious to see what Ward would look like in an expanded role, but that's obviously not gonna happen so I'll just hope Rob can get a bit more of a flow going down the stretch.
Crap, now we're going to be subjected to page after page of you statistically verifying that Holmes should never see the court.
Nobody should play or try to score or pass.
ISU really should have just played it's 2nd and 3rd wave of All Big 12 players more last night. Pretty simple really.
And don't jump because the player you have blocked out may fall on you as he is going over your back for the rebound and everyone knows that if you jump up into the guy going over your back that isn't displacement it is a foul on you.
I saw Caleb Grill avoid contact last night on a run out and get a foul called.
That was...weird.
