SEC/Big10 Pushing for 16 Team Playoff

[WooBadger18]

Ok, you have two options to include every G5 conference champ:

1) Include every G5 conference champ into the 16 team playoff with the P4 so you have 9 auto bids + 7.
2) Have a separate 8-team G5 playoff

Option #2 is, by far, the better, equitable and more entertaining option for both players and fans.

I disagree, I think the first option is better and it is definitely more equitable. Every team in the division should have a chance at winning the national title at the start of the season.

I’ll agree you may have some more entertaining games (although that isn’t a certainty, Georgia vs. TCU says hi), but that doesn’t make it better, it definitely doesn’t make it more “equitable,” and I’m sure the G5 teams are not going to enjoy it.

Also, do you want to make it easier for the Big 10 and SEC to remove the Big 12 from the playoffs entirely? Because option 2 makes that easier.

 

[buf87]

Looking at last few years, some of these teams are Big 12/ACC now but it paints picture that giving the top G5 team a guaranteed spot in 16 is a basic good idea and that they'd be seeded a little higher than 16 most years:

2024: #9 Boise State MWC champ, first out #22 Army
2023: #23 Liberty, first G5 out #24 SMU
2022: #16 Tulane, first G5 out #24 Troy St
2021: #4 Cincy, at large #13 BYU
2020: #9 Cincy, at large #12 Coastal Carolina
2019: #17 Memphis, first G5 out #19 Boise State
2018: #8 UCF, first G5 out #22 Boise State
2017: #14 UCF, first G5 out #20 Memphis
2016: #15 Western Michigan, first G5 out #24 Temple
2015: #18 Houston, first G5 out #21 Navy

With 16 teams it's totally worth it to always guarantee one G5. These years they are just outside top 16 they aren't way outside.

Looking at these 20 top 2 finishes, 7 of the 20 are in Big 12/ACC now. Less than I'd have guessed actually.

Isn't it G5 or Independents? How many times would that team be Notre Dame?

 

[cykadelic2]

I disagree, I think the first option is better and it is definitely more equitable. Every team in the division should have a chance at winning the national title at the start of the season.

You're really the missing the boat here. The winner of a G5 playoff would be considered a national champ like a FCS, D2 or D3 champ would.

 

[WooBadger18]

You're really the missing the boat here. The winner of a G5 playoff would be considered a national champ like a FCS, D2 or D3 champ would.

Unless you’re talking about a similar break as between the FBS and FCS (with all the same rule restrictions), then I don’t see how I’m missing the boat.

Sure, you can call them the G5 national title. And some members of the media and some administrators will put on fake smiles and pretend that they’re equivalent. But we know they aren’t because they’re in the same division. They’re just been relegated to the kids’ table

 

[cykadelic2]

Unless you’re talking about a similar break as between the FBS and FCS (with all the same rule restrictions), then I don’t see how I’m missing the boat.

Sure, you can call them the G5 national title. And some members of the media and some administrators will put on fake smiles and pretend that they’re equivalent. But we know they aren’t because they’re in the same division. They’re just been relegated to the kids’ table

Huh? They already are relegated with no guaranteed access to the CFP for all G5 conference champs.

FB is a numbers game (unlike BB) and permitting all G5 conference champs to compete against P4 powers in the CFP would result in wasted programming/expense with blowouts and lack of entertaining games.

Common sense, fairness, entertainment factor, athlete factor and finances dictate a separate G5 playoff, especially with P4/G5 media rights pooling that would subsidize a separate G5 playoff with G5 teams making more money than what they currently do.

 

[HFCS]

Isn't it G5 or Independents? How many times would that team be Notre Dame?

It’s top 5 champs plus’s 11 at large, but when auto top seeds for conf champs go away it won’t matter for ND. ND will get rewarded for dodging a CCG. If I was on committee I’d tag them with a loss for it, but I doubt any committee member ever will.

 

[WooBadger18]

Huh? They already are relegated with no guaranteed access to the CFP for all G5 conference champs.

FB is a numbers game (unlike BB) and permitting all G5 conference champs to compete against P4 powers in the CFP would result in wasted programming/expense with blowouts and lack of entertaining games.

Common sense, fairness, entertainment factor, athlete factor and finances dictate a separate G5 playoff, especially with P4/G5 media rights pooling that would subsidize a separate G5 playoff with G5 teams making more money than what they currently do.

And you’re wanting to take away any access to they have to the playoff.

I just think as long as they are in the FBS they should have a path to the national title, just like how all the teams have a chance to win the national title in football. And I’m not a fan of making it even easier for the Big 10 and SEC to remove the Big 12 from the playoffs/**** over the Big 12

 

[cykadelic2]

And you’re wanting to take away any access to they have to the playoff.

I just think as long as they are in the FBS they should have a path to the national title, just like how all the teams have a chance to win the national title in football. And I’m not a fan of making it even easier for the Big 10 and SEC to remove the Big 12 from the playoffs/**** over the Big 12

If a G5 program wants to go indy and compete with ND and P4 conferences, they certainly can.

But the vast majority of G5 schools would desire a separate playoff when there is more money for them to do so in conjunction with P4/G5 media rights pooling. And winning that separate playoff would be considered winning a national title like it is for FCS, D2 and D3.

It's a no brainer to do so.

 

[KennyPratt42]

It certainly feels like D-1 football is at the point to split into three divisions. A division of approximated the power 4 with its own roster limits, player comp rules, etc that has its own championship. A middle division made up of the remaining current FBS teams with maybe a couple of the top FCS teams added with their own roster limits, player comp rules, and championship. Then a third division that is similar to the current FCS.

 

[1UNI2ISU]

The G5 isn't going to self relegate. They play at the same level with the same rules as all other FBS programs. That one playoff spot is more lucrative financially than any G5 playoff could ever be.

Comparisons to the FCS are not at all valid. The FCS exists because smaller regional universities wanted a cost controlled level where they could still play Division I football and scholarship limits were designed with that in mind. That's still the goal of the level even though a few schools have absolutely bastardized it and ruined it for the other 120 schools.

The G5 has done nothing by play by the rules, it's not their fault that the financial model moved the power leagues so far above and beyond them.

 

[cykadelic2]

The G5 isn't going to self relegate. They play at the same level with the same rules as all other FBS programs. That one playoff spot is more lucrative financially than any G5 playoff could ever be.

G5 schools would "self-relegate" if they make more money in doing so and provide a clear path for all G5 schools to win a national championship which the current setup obviously does not do (and it's the only effin sport on earth to do so).

P4/G5 media rights pooling would enable higher payouts to G5 schools to have their own playoff.

 

[KennyPratt42]

The G5 isn't going to self relegate. They play at the same level with the same rules as all other FBS programs. That one playoff spot is more lucrative financially than any G5 playoff could ever be.

Comparisons to the FCS are not at all valid. The FCS exists because smaller regional universities wanted a cost controlled level where they could still play Division I football and scholarship limits were designed with that in mind. That's still the goal of the level even though a few schools have absolutely bastardized it and ruined it for the other 120 schools.

The G5 has done nothing by play by the rules, it's not their fault that the financial model moved the power leagues so far above and beyond them.

The split would likely involve the top division moving away not the second division of mostly G5 teams self relegating. The most likely scenario is that some group of football programs leave the NCAA to form their own championship and have collective bargaining with players etc (the hope for many here would be that it's a fairly large group, maybe 50 to 60 teams) and the effective second division would be the top group of teams within the NCAA.

 

[SolterraCyclone]

G5 schools would "self-relegate" if they make more money in doing so and provide a clear path for all G5 schools to win a national championship which the current setup obviously does not do (and it's the only effin sport on earth to do so).

P4/G5 media rights pooling would enable higher payouts to G5 schools to have their own playoff.

What is the avenue for them to make more money by self-relegating? You think networks would pay an arm and a leg for a G5 playoff? You think the MAC’s TV contract will get bigger by removing any potential access to the playoff?

 

[CascadeClone]

My point would be last year's BYU at 10-2 shouldn't automatically get bounced for that 8-4 Michigan team which I'm sure is what Big Ten brass is promoting.

Using BYU because they were ranked 17th despite having an objectively better SOR than about 7 teams above them going into bowls/playoff.

At 16 teams 8-4 should be a very "bubble" team from a power conference if they have strong SOS, not some automatic lock at the expense of everybody else.

The tiebreaker will always be BRAND.

10-2 BYU or 8-4 Illinois? BYU
10-2 BYU or 8-4 Michigan? I wouldn't bet a thin dime on that proposition.

 

[cykadelic2]

What is the avenue for them to make more money by self-relegating? You think networks would pay an arm and a leg for a G5 playoff?

The networks will pay for a separate G5 playoff if those G5 playoff rights are bundled with P4/P7 rights in a media rights pooling scenario (which would double existing P4/G5 media rights).

For example, if a network badly wants SEC rights, part of that deal would include all or a portion of G5 playoff rights bundled with it. Media rights pooling/aggregation would enable that type of bundling to the financial benefit of all P4/P5 schools.

The current rights mechanism is for the sole benefit of ESPN and Fox and they are both using their puppets, Sankey and Pettit, to keep the mechanism as is.

 

[CascadeClone]

Common sense, fairness, entertainment factor, athlete factor and finances dictate a separate G5 playoff, especially with P4/G5 media rights pooling that would subsidize a separate G5 playoff with G5 teams making more money than what they currently do.

I wouldn't disagree with a separate G5 playoff but couple of issues. It might even be a chance to do a re-org on the P4 teams into sensible divisions and a single common league. BUT...

1. Short trip to pushing some more teams off to the G5 and just having the Premier league of 20-24 teams, and the rest delegated to "division 2"

2. G5 will get a lot less money out of this. Yeah they do already, so maybe it isn't worse, but it might get worse.

3. There are usually 1 or sometimes 2 G5 teams that probably deserve a shot at the big boys. They won't have any real shot to win a title, but neither will 10-12 of the other 16 teams that are just there for the spectacle. I don't have a problem with 12-1 Memphis in the CFP, instead of 9-3 Ole Miss. Neither is going to win the title, so who cares.

 

[WooBadger18]

If a G5 program wants to go indy and compete with ND and P4 conferences, they certainly can.

But the vast majority of G5 schools would desire a separate playoff when there is more money for them to do so in conjunction with P4/G5 media rights pooling. And winning that separate playoff would be considered winning a national title like it is for FCS, D2 and D3.

It's a no brainer to do so.

Do they actually desire this or are other people telling them that they should desire this? I’m not a fan of a G5 team, so it intimately doesn’t matter to me if they chose to have a separate playoff, but I’ve never gotten the sense that this is what they want.

Also, why are you so confident that the P4 would help pool media rights to give the G5 more money? Why would the P4 help the G5 there?

And it absolutely would not be viewed as equivalent, and that’s before you get into the issue that people don’t view the FCS, DII, and DIII championships the same as the FBS title

 

[CascadeClone]

The networks will pay for a separate G5 playoff if those G5 playoff rights are bundled with P4/P7 rights in a media rights pooling scenario (which would double existing P4/G5 media rights).

For example, if a network badly wants SEC rights, part of that deal would include all or a portion of G5 playoff rights bundled with it. Media rights pooling/aggregation would enable that type of bundling to the financial benefit of all P4/P5 schools.

The current rights mechanism is for the sole benefit of ESPN and Fox and they are both using their puppets, Sankey and Pettit, to keep the mechanism as is.

Why on earth would B1G or SEC want to pool those rights? They only will get their own share reduced a bit dragging the G5 along. They have proven they are willing to risk the whole system in order to help themselves to the detriment of other teams/schools.

You might as well propose that the B1G and SEC directly subsidize other conferences, its about as likely to happen.

About the only thing G5 could do is "unionize" somehow to raise the price of buy games. Probably their only option.

 

[1UNI2ISU]

G5 schools would "self-relegate" if they make more money in doing so and provide a clear path for all G5 schools to win a national championship which the current setup obviously does not do (and it's the only effin sport on earth to do so).

P4/G5 media rights pooling would enable higher payouts to G5 schools to have their own playoff.

I don't know how many times we have to go over this...

The SEC and Big Ten have ZERO desire to pool media rights and you can't force them to come to a negotiating table they don't want to be at. When the parties with all the power have no desire to make a deal, a deal isn't going to happen.

 

[1UNI2ISU]

Do they actually desire this or are other people telling them that they should desire this? I’m not a fan of a G5 team, so it intimately doesn’t matter to me if they chose to have a separate playoff, but I’ve never gotten the sense that this is what they want.

Also, why are you so confident that the P4 would help pool media rights to give the G5 more money? Why would the P4 help the G5 there?

And it absolutely would not be viewed as equivalent, and that’s before you get into the issue that people don’t view the FCS, DII, and DIII championships the same as the FBS title

They don't want it. They want what they've got now which is more lucrative for them. They don't care about hanging some banner that nobody cares about. The current setup is the absolute best case scenario for them.