Running the Read-Option

[blutarsky]

I love all the coaches we have on here. You don't think Mess and the staff know what they are doing? You think they are running the zone read based on how well we did last year? C'mon.

Tech watched the same game film we did, so they knew how to stop it. Tech was forcing us to run it (by jamming our WR and knowing SJs deep ball accuracy). So, we did what we had to do, run the ball. We just didn't execute. The coaches will put the players in the best scenario to win games, it is up the players to execute the plays.

Would have been nice to throw to the RB's in the flat or run shallow crossing routes. That also would have been available against the press. I agree with you that ISU was trying to take what they were being given with the run but they we not executing. When you are down you have to open it up a bit and deviate from the plan. Mess didn't do that.

 

[cycloneworld]

Tech watched the same game film we did, so they knew how to stop it. Tech was forcing us to run it (by jamming our WR and knowing SJs deep ball accuracy). So, we did what we had to do, run the ball. We just didn't execute. The coaches will put the players in the best scenario to win games, it is up the players to execute the plays.

We had 189 total yards...I think there is more to it than the players not executing. If you think the coaches called a good offense game last week, I'm not sure which game you were watching.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

Coming into this season what was ISU's biggest asset on offense? The stable of quality RB's.

Coming into this season what was ISU's biggest concern on offense? Steele Jantz's play/decision making.

So far this season Jantz has turned the ball over far too many times and he has more carries then any of our RB's. So it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that so far this season our offensive strategy has been to play away from our strength and play more towards our biggest weakness. Now that makes perfect sense doesn't it???

 

[Baffan]

While I'm not going to pretend I know more than the coaches. I think it is a valid question to ask the coaching staff why from the fan's standpoint, it appears we are indeed playing against our strength.

1. Jantz has more runs than our RBs, and isn't anywhere near as productive doing it.
2. We are running a lot of zone-read plays, which is more suited for JB.
3. Jantz advantage over JB is his arm, however as stated above we aren't playing to that advantage, and so far in the games Jantz has proven he may be more accurate than JB but imo doesn't make smart throws.
4. Again, Jantz has a better/stronger arm, however he has connected on very few long balls and seems to overthrow the receivers 80% of the time.

All I'm saying is it would be nice to get a response from the coaches on these points. There very well could be viable answers to every one of them.

 

[Cyclone1985]

We had 189 total yards...I think there is more to it than the players not executing. If you think the coaches called a good offense game last week, I'm not sure which game you were watching.

They get paid the big bucks to coach, and put the players in the best scenario to win games.

They were obviously seeing things at the snap that indicated we should be able to execute the zone read. How many times did Jantz audible out of that call? None. So both Mess AND Jantz thought it should work.

 

[Cycsk]

I don't think we have seen the totality of the offense yet. We tried to win win a limited set of plays. And apart from a few turnovers, we would wave won.

I suspect that we will open the playbook more this week. The coaches aren't clueless.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

They get paid the big bucks to coach, and put the players in the best scenario to win games.

They were obviously seeing things at the snap that indicated we should be able to execute the zone read. How many times did Jantz audible out of that call? None. So both Mess AND Jantz thought it should work.

With all things being equal... Mess can only make the play call and Jantz must execute the play for it to work. 19 carries for 14 yards tells me that Jantz was not making the correct decisions for those play calls to be executed successfully.

With all things being equal... Jantz can only attempt to execute the plays that Mess is calling and calling slow developing zone read plays against an 8 and sometimes 9 man front is not a high percentage play. How can anyone think a zone read play is going to be effective no matter how well you execute when you have 5 blockers up against 8 or 9 defenders? Even if executed perfectly the odds are that it isn't going to work and it didn't.

 

[Cyclone1985]

With all things being equal... Mess can only make the play call and Jantz must execute the play for it to work. 19 carries for 14 yards tells me that Jantz was not making the correct decisions for those play calls to be executed successfully.

With all things being equal... Jantz can only attempt to execute the plays that Mess is calling and calling slow developing zone read plays against an 8 and sometimes 9 man front is not a high percentage play. How can anyone think a zone read play is going to be effective no matter how well you execute when you have 5 blockers up against 8 or 9 defenders? Even if executed perfectly the odds are that it isn't going to work and it didn't.

I was not saying Jantz makes the correct reads on the run. However, stating they have 9 guys in the box is a little extreme.

For one, you dont need to black the backside D-end. He has outside contain and shouldn't cross the tackle's face. So the backside tackle should be getting to the LB to stop flow. So there is a 2 for 1.

Was the center chipping on the d-linemen and then getting to the middle linebacker? idk, i havent watched video, but he should be.

That leaves the playside tackle shedding the d-end and getting to the outside linebacker.

And finally, Jantz needs to make the correct read on the d-end.

Did all these players execute? if so, on paper and pre-snap reads indicate at minimum 3-4 yard run plays with the safety coming up to make the tackle.

 

[Tailg8er]

While I'm not going to pretend I know more than the coaches. I think it is a valid question to ask the coaching staff why from the fan's standpoint, it appears we are indeed playing against our strength.

1. Jantz has more runs than our RBs, and isn't anywhere near as productive doing it.
2. We are running a lot of zone-read plays, which is more suited for JB.
3. Jantz advantage over JB is his arm, however as stated above we aren't playing to that advantage, and so far in the games Jantz has proven he may be more accurate than JB but imo doesn't make smart throws.
4. Again, Jantz has a better/stronger arm, however he has connected on very few long balls and seems to overthrow the receivers 80% of the time.

All I'm saying is it would be nice to get a response from the coaches on these points. There very well could be viable answers to every one of them.

I agree that'd it'd be nice to get some specific answers to those questions.

I remember reading some Rhoads comments from a presser earlier this week(don't remember which thread). He said something along the lines that a big factor as to why SJ was named starter in the first place was because he could make certain throws that JB could not.

Maybe it's just me, but I take this to mean more than just the deep bombs. Couldn't it also include 10-20 yard wide throws? (ie. outs, comebacks, etc)

A lot of posters seem to be pointing out his lack of accuracy on the deep deep throws, but I think the difference between SJ & JB would also significantly show in the intermediate passing game.

 

[Wesley]

I don't think we have seen the totality of the offense yet. We tried to win win a limited set of plays. And apart from a few turnovers, we would wave won.

I suspect that we will open the playbook more this week? The coaches aren't clueless.

And why did we not have more plays ready? Are we priming for KSU? Or are we trying to not get the offense flustered with the playbook? Our last three games will be our most difficult. We need the sneaky plays now.

 

[Baffan]

I agree that'd it'd be nice to get some specific answers to those questions.

A lot of posters seem to be pointing out his lack of accuracy on the deep deep throws, but I think the difference between SJ & JB would also significantly show in the intermediate passing game.

I agree that the coaches aren't specifically talking about the deep ball, although they have commented on him having a stronger arm before. I do believe Jantz is more accurate on the 10-20 throws as well, which showed when JB threw the pick in the WIU game.

However, I still think Jantz makes more risky throws putting more of a chance on throwing interceptions than he should. See the multiple throws across the middle this year, and the interception when thrown to Bruns against Ttech. I thought it was well thrown, and wasn't necessarily anyone's fault it was picked. My problem was that, IIRC we had another receiver, I believe West, who was open when he threw the ball. I just think he made a poor decision to throw it there in the first place.

 

[nhclone]

They get paid the big bucks to coach, and put the players in the best scenario to win games.

They were obviously seeing things at the snap that indicated we should be able to execute the zone read. How many times did Jantz audible out of that call? None. So both Mess AND Jantz thought it should work.

I don't believe I've ever heard our QBs kill a play. Maybe I just haven't noticed it, but the only time I've noticed us audible at the line was when we did the look to the sidelines thing everyone hated so much.

 

[Cyclone1985]

I don't believe I've ever heard our QBs kill a play. Maybe I just haven't noticed it, but the only time I've noticed us audible at the line was when we did the look to the sidelines thing everyone hated so much.

All I was trying to say, is that if it was that blatantly obvious the play would not work, 1. Mess would not call it and 2. Jantz would/should audible out of it.

 

[nhclone]

All I was trying to say, is that if it was that blatantly obvious the play would not work, 1. Mess would not call it and 2. Jantz would/should audible out of it.

I understood that. I was just saying I don't know if Jantz has the option of audibling. Some coaches prefer no to give the QB the added responsibility of making that decision.

 

[CycloneVet]

OP said Jantz has 53 attempts and is running more than the rbs, 42=37=79, How is 53 more than 79 when we mostly have 1 running back out there? Im just curious?

 

[Cyclone1985]

I understood that. I was just saying I don't know if Jantz has the option of audibling. Some coaches prefer no to give the QB the added responsibility of making that decision.

I had the option to audible in high school! I sure hope a D1 QB can handle making an audible.

 

[Palmer]

That is HARDLY the only stat that matters. The QB is a huge part of the game, but far from the only part.

Excuse me for trusting CPR & Mess over you..

Anyone has the right to question what is going on.

4 years into CPR's tenure....we still do not have a quarterback. Along with that...the run/read numbers do not support have Steel in the game.

The strong arm factor for Steel does not hold water due to the fact he is not accurate.

 

[nhclone]

I had the option to audible in high school! I sure hope a D1 QB can handle making an audible.

I agree, I'm also highly jealous you were given the ability in HS. I don't understand why some coaches are like that, but it happens. Brett Favre spoke out about not being able to audible when he was with the Vikings under Childress. Some coaches just don't seem to trust players ability to audible to the correct formation/play.

 

[Land Grant]

Let's say it this way: I do believe that Mess and staff have a plan. It is an oversimple and uncreative one. Opposing defenses will feed on it. So far, Mess reminds me of Brickey from years ago. Herman was not much better.

Also, I never claimed to be a coach. Just a fan who has watched a lot of football.

I love all the coaches we have on here. You don't think Mess and the staff know what they are doing? You think they are running the zone read based on how well we did last year? C'mon.

Tech watched the same game film we did, so they knew how to stop it. Tech was forcing us to run it (by jamming our WR and knowing SJs deep ball accuracy). So, we did what we had to do, run the ball. We just didn't execute. The coaches will put the players in the best scenario to win games, it is up the players to execute the plays.

 

[nhclone]

Palmer,

Your tireless negativity needs to go.