Realignment Megathread (All The Moves)

agrabes

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Thread from another CFB writer confirming what seems to be the consensus at the moment, that Pac schools are trying to stick together. They've clearly realized, correctly, that they don't have to rush into any panic moves at this moment. Probably not great for our chances to land them.


To be fair, I think there's definite merit to what he is saying but I'd take it with a grain of salt. ESPN is not a neutral party in this discussion and they have a vested interest in pushing the P12/ACC "loose arrangement" to prop up the value of their properties (ACC).

I think from the B12 perspective, it's true the P12 doesn't have to rush and sign a deal today. But I also think that our value to the P12 schools doesn't diminish over time. I doubt any current B12 schools would be poached by other conferences barring a complete reorganization because the teams left don't move the needle anymore for the B1G or SEC and I can't foresee the B12 schools going to the P12. Over time, I think that the matchups in the B12 are still more interesting/valuable than some weird ACC/P12 mashup in terms of actual football viewership and therefore TV revenue. The B12 has a lot more fan support relative to the majority of the ACC and P12. So even if they don't jump today a year or two down the road I still think they come around.
 

AlaCyclone

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I am not convinced that the B1G really wanted UCLA all that badly. Since 2000, they have averaged only 6.6 wins per season (excluding 2020), and have finished in the top 25 only 3 times. Not exactly blue blood numbers, especially when you consider the conference they are in.

IMO, the B1G felt they needed UCLA to get their real target USC, and they wanted USC for the brand and to lure ND into the fold. True, they want the LA market, but USC alone would have given them that. Nobody really wants to see UCLA vs (Indiana | Purdue | Rutgers, etc).

The TV numbers back that up. UCLA ranked 32nd nationally in TV viewership for football.

H
But Baketball!
/ sarcasm
Let's Go State!
 

Cyclonepride

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I've read local articles from Arizona, Colorado and now Washington. They all seem to indicate the Big 12 is likely their best option if a Big 10 invite isn't forthcoming. So I guess we are just waiting to see (a) what the Big 10 is going to do and (b) what Fox/ESPN come up with as the PAC's value for the remaining 10 schools (which can't be good considering how bad their attendance and viewership have been the last few years).
Anyone not named Washington or Oregon should not be holding their breath
 

RustShack

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This might be a good thing that their media deal is up sooner. If Oregon and Washington don’t want to sign a GoR to keep the PAC alive, the mountain four can jump to the Big12.
 

Clark

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I kinda like this idea, play some hardball with the Mountain 4.

”Yeah, see, you guys sign on the line today and agree to come over in 2024, this is what your conference money will be. You wanna think it over? Stick it out with your PAC buddies? Fine with me, but this is a limited-time offer. You come back to us in a couple of years after the Ducks and the Huskies bail on you, you ain’t getting this deal again. Ball’s in your court.”

The problem with that is that the Big 12 isn't the only alternative. Geographically speaking, those schools aren't anywhere near the Atlantic coast but I think geography mattering has left the building.

Putting on the tinfoil hat, wouldn't it be a good value play for ESPN to orchestrate a Clemson, FSU move the the SEC and have the ACC replace them with Oregon, Washington, Utah, Stanford, Cal and Colorado. ( or just merge the two conferences if need be) ESPN would also permit the ACC to renegotiate their tv deal early. This would basically steal the best of the Pac 12 leftovers from Fox and ensure that ESPN had the media rights for 2 of the top 3 college football conferences.

Taking off the tinfoil hat, I think this is unrealistic mostly because I can't believe Fox wouldn't step in and have the Big 10 scoop up Oregon and Washington at the very least.
 

Klubber

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One could ask whether Nebraska was a true blue-blood or if the simply had a great 30-year run by taking advantage of loopholes in the rules that are shut tight now. The blue bloods have advantages in fan support, money, and media attention that allow them to return to the top fairly quickly even if they have some down years. The exception might be Texas. Their ability to screw things up is unparalleled.
Taking advantage would be an understatement.

Who has ever recruited as many known prop 48 criminals as Tom Osborne/Frank Solich during the '90's Nebby glory years?

It's disgusting what they did, and every losing season, coaching/player gaffe and just bad football is a thorough enjoyment for any ISU fan who remembers the old Big 8 days.

Nebby's comeuppance paired with our success is endlessly enjoyable.

COACH AND JURY NEBRASKA PLAYERS CHARGED WITH CRIMES HAVE A STEADFAST ALLY IN THE MAN WHO RUNS THE PROGRAM, TOM OSBORNE
 

isucy86

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To be clear, I'm not comparing SDSU relative to Houston, UCF, BYU, or Cincinnati. I don't think that anyone else is doing that either. I'm comparing SDSU to the PAC12 schools which all have very long history of being in major conferences and playing at the highest level.

If you want my opinion on SDSU vs. the B12's recent additions - BYU and Cincinnati are a significant improvement over SDSU. BYU for its history of success and widespread appeal to members of the LDS church, Cincinnati for its recent high levels of success on the field and the fact that prior to the implosion of the Big East football conference it had been in a major conference since 2005, was relegated back to Mid-Major status for 10 years, then will rejoin a major conference in 2023. Both these schools have very strong resumes. UCF and Houston are slight upgrades over SDSU because they've had more success at the highest levels relative to SDSU (both have appeared in and won NY6 bowl games which SDSU has never come close to doing). The B12 and network execs ran the numbers last year and clearly the people who had access to the real data determined that SDSU was not as good as the four additions from last year.

Do you have hard data or evidence on the calculations being used by Fox, ESPN, and the conferences to develop the precise value of SDSU vs the PAC12 teams? I don't, so I can't provide it. The only thing I can say for certain is that you can't just quote the size of the city where the university is located as a selling point, unless you are talking about that school's value to the B1G. Here is why: one of the B1G's key strategies in their 2010 expansion was to increase revenue by forcing local cable/satellite providers to carry its Big 10 Network channel on basic or expanded basic cable. This essentially captured subscription fees from most of the residents of those cities, who had to pay for the BTN because they wanted the History Channel. This was the primary reason for them adding Rutgers - to capture all those TV subscription dollars from the NYC and NJ TV markets. No other conference has a conference TV network with enough fan support to force local providers to carry it on a basic cable package.

Therefore - TV revenue from all other conferences comes from actual viewers of their televised games. TV Networks must have some formula they use to calculate the value of a school's TV revenue, probably based on viewership of games that a school participates in, normalized for the influence of the other team's fanbase. I don't know the formula, but I think it's common sense to say that the size of the city where the university is located doesn't play into it at all. Simply living in San Diego has very little factor into whether or not you watch SDSU football.

By the time I made my post, others had already pointed out that SDSU has low attendance numbers and poor football results compared to the P12 teams under consideration so I didn't feel the need to repeat that. If you want to speculate that SDSU might someday grow into a P5 school, that's fine. But we're not in a position to be taking fliers on mid majors who have had moderate success when P5 schools with proven track records at the highest level are available. If you wanted to argue SDSU vs. Houston last year, that makes sense. Arguing SDSU vs. Colorado is just foolish.
I am not comparing SDSU to CU. As stated in my post CU, UA, ASU and UU are priority. That would get Big12 to 16 teams. We could stop there.

I then view UW and OR as the next priority. They have the best media value of all Pac12 schools, even if they are geographically isolated from the other 16. So they are automatic takes. We are up to 18 schools.

Next consider Stanford and Cal. Not sure how TV folks value those two schools and their value to bring Bay Area market. Obviously not a Big10 sure take. But the Big12 threshold is much lower. Maybe they are accretive to Big12 TV $ on a per school basis. That would get us to 20 schools and probably a good stopping point.

But what if we only get an odd number out of UW, OR, Cal and Stanford? Maybe taking SDSU is the next best option over Oregon State or Wash State to get to an even # teams.
 
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2speedy1

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I wonder what he’s willing to do to make that happen. He/Nike is in position, probably, to add quite the sweetener for Oregon to get into either of those conferences if it’s necessary, but that could end up backfiring.
How much is a clothing/Uniform/Gear etc deal worth for the entire conference? If he footed the bill for the entire conference for a period of time for their equipment?
 

2speedy1

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I understand. And that's why they permanently moved it to Vegas just like their bball tourney.
Utah has a following unlike most of the other PAC schools in recent times. This is why the attendance spiked last year. It was 95% Utah fans.

This is why Utah is a good get.
 
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ISUCyclones2015

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Utah has a following unlike most of the other PAC schools in recent times. This is why the attendance spiked last year. It was 95% Utah fans.

This is why Utah is a good get.
I would say it was 66% Utah fans but it’s still infinitely easier to get to Vegas than Santa Clara
 

isucy86

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Thread from another CFB writer confirming what seems to be the consensus at the moment, that Pac schools are trying to stick together. They've clearly realized, correctly, that they don't have to rush into any panic moves at this moment. Probably not great for our chances to land them.


Seems somewhat true. Pac12 schools basically have 12 months to sort things out.

But Notre Dame's agreement with NBC runs through 2025/2026 FY. One year beyond when the BIG12 contact expiration. So if ND isn't in a hurry, that puts the Pac12 schools in a bind because they don't have a TV contract starting 2024 football season.

There was a report that Big12 gave the Pac12 schools 30 days to decide with input from Fox. That timeline could easily be at Fox's insistence vs. Big 12's.

If somehow Fox loses out on Big10 this summer, does that impact how much they need Big12/Pac12 combination. I would say yes, the Big12/Pac12 would have more leverage.
 

GTO

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I kinda like this idea, play some hardball with the Mountain 4.

”Yeah, see, you guys sign on the line today and agree to come over in 2024, this is what your conference money will be. You wanna think it over? Stick it out with your PAC buddies? Fine with me, but this is a limited-time offer. You come back to us in a couple of years after the Ducks and the Huskies bail on you, you ain’t getting this deal again. Ball’s in your court.”
Yep. Basically tell them: join now and start playing in 2024 at full share or come back to us later and start at a smaller share, if we even still want you.
 

AlaCyclone

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The problem with that is that the Big 12 isn't the only alternative. Geographically speaking, those schools aren't anywhere near the Atlantic coast but I think geography mattering has left the building.

Putting on the tinfoil hat, wouldn't it be a good value play for ESPN to orchestrate a Clemson, FSU move the the SEC and have the ACC replace them with Oregon, Washington, Utah, Stanford, Cal and Colorado. ( or just merge the two conferences if need be) ESPN would also permit the ACC to renegotiate their tv deal early. This would basically steal the best of the Pac 12 leftovers from Fox and ensure that ESPN had the media rights for 2 of the top 3 college football conferences.

Taking off the tinfoil hat, I think this is unrealistic mostly because I can't believe Fox wouldn't step in and have the Big 10 scoop up Oregon and Washington at the very least.
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The A&P Conference would be a disaster.
 

Gonzo

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Seems somewhat true. Pac12 schools basically have 12 months to sort things out.

But Notre Dame's agreement with NBC runs through 2025/2026 FY. One year beyond when the BIG12 contact expiration. So if ND isn't in a hurry, that puts the Pac12 schools in a bind because they don't have a TV contract starting 2024 football season.

There was a report that Big12 gave the Pac12 schools 30 days to decide with input from Fox. That timeline could easily be at Fox's insistence vs. Big 12's.

If somehow Fox loses out on Big10 this summer, does that impact how much they need Big12/Pac12 combination. I would say yes, the Big12/Pac12 would have more leverage.
FOX isn't losing out on the B1G. FOX owns 61% of the BTN and is basically calling the shots, they have the top tier of the next media rights package, what needs to be figured out is who else is at the table (ESPN, CBS, NBC, Amazon, Apple) for the additional rights and what $$$ valuation it comes in at.
 
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