Property Insurance

BCClone

Well Seen Member.
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Sep 4, 2011
62,418
57,120
113
Not exactly sure.
Also, when I was growing up, when things like this happened, dad made me grab a ladder and we went and repaired the stuff ourselves. Dad said he can do the work for a hundred bucks of supplies and half a day of our time and only repair what was damaged. Now it has to all look the same and if a small section is damaged insurance pays to replace the whole area. This is one of the reasons why claims are going up.
 

Althetuna

Ducky was the best dog.
SuperFanatic
Jul 7, 2012
13,345
11,868
113
Somewhere in the Minneapolis Area
2020 was a derecho-like catastrophic economic event. No one was modeling for that, and the Federal Reserve, which ostensibly exists to manage inflation via monetary policy, has repeatedly been wrong in their predictions. Actuaries are mathematicians, not soothsayers. And when past performance doesn’t align with current results, things can go sideways quickly (see: 2008 sub-prime mortgage debacle).
I would think short term, one off and long term predictable events could be accounted and adjusted for.
 
Last edited:

BCClone

Well Seen Member.
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Sep 4, 2011
62,418
57,120
113
Not exactly sure.
In my area ground water levels went from 19 inches below the surface two weeks ago to 26 inches below the surface now, but we have now slipped from moderate drought to abnormally dry.............. I guess if the ground water disappears, it means you are in less of a drought?
 

Clonehomer

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2006
22,405
18,258
113
Also, when I was growing up, when things like this happened, dad made me grab a ladder and we went and repaired the stuff ourselves. Dad said he can do the work for a hundred bucks of supplies and half a day of our time and only repair what was damaged. Now it has to all look the same and if a small section is damaged insurance pays to replace the whole area. This is one of the reasons why claims are going up.

Also replacing the whole thing with contractors that are price gouging because everyone in the area needs their roof replaced.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: isufbcurt

cytor

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Nov 20, 2011
6,319
9,775
113
The roof thing: I agree that replacing old roofs with new ones is insanity for insurance to pay for that. Imagine your tires on your car wearing out and you claim it on your insurance.

That is all changing anyway with roofs. Insurance carriers are now going ACV on roofs. Some carriers are switching to ACV on a 15 year old roof. Some are doing it at 8 years old. It won't be long and all roofs will be ACV from day 1.... Just like your new car that depreciates rapidly after leaving the dealership.

All of this is being driven by 1) weather, 2) Claims frequency, 3) Inflation, and 4) this is a big one.... Have you noticed that coming out of the pandemic that the cost of building materials is still staying high, despite back in production?

I pray for everyone back in Iowa for a break in the weather. You deserve it.
 

BCClone

Well Seen Member.
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Sep 4, 2011
62,418
57,120
113
Not exactly sure.
Also replacing the whole thing with contractors that are price gouging because everyone in the area needs their roof replaced.
About two years ago I had an insurance company call me to inspect a structure that I had. They told me they like to do this every 3 years or so. It was built in 2009 area. I asked them when they were out there last, the lady informed me that this was their initial inspection. So they werent' getting around to looking at things.

I know the adjuster for the area, the dude had plenty of time on his hands to go do some of these but never has. Even the agent could probably go get pictures or general info since they make commission off them. The insurance industry probably has the highest amount of deception and waste (from the companies and people insured) of any industry I can think of.
 

BillBrasky4Cy

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Dec 10, 2013
15,568
28,345
113
Thats just an excuse. We have always had storms and storm damage. There is maybe a slight increase in frequency but its all cyclical, just like we will have less some years.

The biggest issue is inflationary costs, it costs a lot more to repair damage today than it did 4 years ago, outside of that its just the push for higher profits.

The DSM metro alone has had two major weather events in the last 4 years. That alone will bury a lot of insurance companies. It's impossible for them to spread out their risk when the metro areas continue to get nailed.
 

BillBrasky4Cy

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Dec 10, 2013
15,568
28,345
113
2020 was a derecho-like catastrophic economic event. No one was modeling for that, and the Federal Reserve, which ostensibly exists to manage inflation via monetary policy, has repeatedly been wrong in their predictions. Actuaries are mathematicians, not soothsayers. And when past performance doesn’t align with current results, things can go sideways quickly (see: 2008 sub-prime mortgage debacle).

The two largest areas impacted by the derecho were the DSM metro and Cedar Rapids. Insurance companies got slaughtered.
 

0u812

Active Member
Jan 14, 2012
705
-402
43
49
In addition to increased building costs, the more complex automotive designs (sensors, cameras, materials) are rapidly increasing vehicle repair costs.
100% this. New cars have so much unnecessary ******** its unreal. People just keep allowing the regulations to get more strict (safety, emissions, and such). The common public gets all infatuated with new flat screens and gimmicks such as ambient lighting in the junk cars today. Its funny to me, and as a car enthusiast, I think i am about in the newest model car I will ever want, circa 2012.
 

somecyguy

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2006
3,246
3,599
113
The two largest areas impacted by the derecho were the DSM metro and Cedar Rapids. Insurance companies got slaughtered.

I'm waiting for some of the roofing companies in CR to go under, because unless they have a lot of new construction business, I don't know what's left to do. After the derecho, literally every block had at least one house with a blue tarp on it, many times multiple ones. It wouldn't surprise me if over a third of the residential houses got new roofs.
 
Last edited:

BillBrasky4Cy

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Dec 10, 2013
15,568
28,345
113
I'm waiting for some of the roofing companies in CR is go under, because unless they have a lot of new construction business, I don't know what's left to do. After the derecho, literally every block had at least one house with a blue tarp on it, many times multiple ones. It wouldn't surprise me if over a third of the residential houses got new roofs.

Sad thing is that a lot of the houses that got roofed weren't done by area companies...
 

danielyp29

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2011
772
553
93
Ames
Admittedly, I dont know a ton about the insurance industry other than its a primarily state regulated industry and is driven by actuarial science.

No about inflation has been a driver in increased premiums but one would think inflation is something easily modeled by acturaries.

Something else is driving enough uncertainty in their modeling for insurance companies to pull from entire markets.
At one point (probably like 7 years ago, before Derecho), I recall having like 3-5 "1 in 100 year" type events in a 15-20 year period in a number of midwest states. A lot of other bigger storms that aren't tornadoes (1-2 inch hails, 50mph winds taking off older roofs/siding, replacement cost on roof, etc) add up pretty quickly, too. Bigger carriers could absorb some of these types of losses and spread it out over few years (with aggressive rate increases), but smaller regional heavy carriers are looking to take 25-30% per year over 5+ years to get profitable again and potentially risk pricing out most of their current policies out of the market.

There was some sort of a joke that predictive models are only as good as the actual events carry out so a hardcoded model could be technically "more accurate" than a complex one, but clearly the models did not contemplate having 1 in 100 year events to be more like 1 in 10 or 1 in 5 year events. Most states won't let you file these models anyways but it's tough when your actuarial rate need based on actual losses is 60%+ and rapidly increasing, and you're *only* taking a 20% rate, only to come back next year and you've only made 10pt improvement.

Just my personal opinion, but over a 5 year period you'll probably end up paying something similar relative to the coverage you have with just about any carrier. Some companies are reducing coverages/raising deductibles, some are staying ahead of the rate and taking steady (but higher) rate increases, or some are behind the rate and will have to take aggressive rates eventually or potentially pull out completely from the market.
 

cytor

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Nov 20, 2011
6,319
9,775
113
A lot of carriers are already mandating a minimum wind/hail deductible, too.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: chadly82

Clonehomer

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2006
22,405
18,258
113
A lot of carriers are already mandating a minimum wind/hail deductible, too.

Wouldn’t be surprised if they eventually do a max benefit for roofs. They could base the cost of a roof replacement on normal conditions + a percentage to avoid the super high costs of replacing right after a disaster. The contractors rely on the insurance companies having no negotiating leverage, so they can charge whatever they want. If there was a max benefit from the insurance company, might make it easier to keep the costs down.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: chadly82

somecyguy

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2006
3,246
3,599
113
Another issue I think insurance companies need to control better is the lack of good adjusters. I experienced this first hand after the derecho. My insurance is through West Bend and they subbed it out, which led to some jackoff from California with little to no knowledge of cold weather construction, and just as much motivation to do anything other just write a few notes so he could get paid for it. He never even got on the roof or bothered to include the two A/C units that had a tree laying on them.

Because the adjustment report was so bad and since West Bend knew it, they essentially had to rely on my construction contractor to report the damage. Talk about a conflict of interest. I was present during his reviews and I wasn't interested in "sticking" it to them, but it would be easy for contractors to pick apart everything resulting in massive claims.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: chadly82

Sparkplug

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Oct 9, 2008
2,906
1,822
113
Central Iowa
Waiting for insurance adjuster. Scheduled for 12:30. Just learned that he is only looking at buildings. A different adjuster will look at truck and another will look at farm equipment. Only one has contacted me
 
  • Sad
Reactions: chadly82

wxman1

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Jul 2, 2008
18,872
14,676
113
Cedar Rapids
Sad thing is that a lot of the houses that got roofed weren't done by area companies...
Although I agree with you the local companies can't handle that size of volume. The local company we hired subcontracted/brought in crews from Texas to handle it.

Between the hail storm in April of 2020 and the derecho the Linn county landfill took in enough building debris etc. to take three years off of it's lifespan.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: BillBrasky4Cy

somecyguy

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2006
3,246
3,599
113
Although I agree with you the local companies can't handle that size of volume. The local company we hired subcontracted/brought in crews from Texas to handle it.

Between the hail storm in April of 2020 and the derecho the Linn county landfill took in enough building debris etc. to take three years off of it's lifespan.
I couldn't even get a local company to talk to me, they were so busy.. Mine was from Illinois and he still needed a sub crew from Kentucky to complete my roof.
 

Latest posts

Help Support Us

Become a patron