*** Official #24 IOWA STATE vs #20 BYU Game(Day) Thread ***

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Cyinthenorth

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We were running at guys and they were using the momentum of our guys running to the spot against them. I don't have the answers but they seemed to be way better schematically than us, especially after half time. When we had the ball, everything was hard, none of our guys were free or open, they had us locked down. It was hard to watch as BYU made everything look so easy when they had the ball. They had cutters, they made the extra pass, they hit shots. They just seemed to have a much higher basketball skill level than what we have.
Spot on. It was painful. I am not ready to dump on TJ for being outcoached, but man, it looked like BYU had been preparing all season specifically for this game. It felt like a Prohm-coached ISU team against one of the prime Fran teams with lethal 3 point shooters at all 5 positions. They seemed to know exactly what to do and how to break down our defense.
 

bawbie

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Spot on. It was painful. I am not ready to dump on TJ for being outcoached, but man, it looked like BYU had been preparing all season specifically for this game. It felt like a Prohm-coached ISU team against one of the prime Fran teams with lethal 3 point shooters at all 5 positions. They seemed to know exactly what to do and how to break down our defense.
I don't think this very often, but I do agree that TJ was outcoached last night.
 

Cyinthenorth

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Hopefully they can just find a way to the tournament.
I am back to this too, now. I have gone back and forth all season long. Was encouraged by the fast start, as we were crushing opponents albeit teams that basically had no pulse. Thought the sky was potentially the limit. Then after Orlando, I resurfaced quite a bit and thought maybe this team is decent and can land a 6-10 seed in the NCAA Tournament. After blowing out Iowa and cutting thru the rest of non con like butter, I was back to thinking maybe a 4-5 seeded type of team that could compete for a top 5 Big 12 finish. After beating Houston and starting conference play 2-1 I was drinking all of the kool aid again. After last night I find myself ramping down again.

I ultimately think this team is just very average. They are good. They are not great. They don't have a lot of playmaking ability offensively, shot makers, and defensively they are only as good as the scheme allows. There will be really fun nights (in Hilton) and some really ugly nights (on the road). Might drop a game or two in Hilton, might be able to sneak a game or two on the road. We will see. I think this is still an NCAA Tournament team, but I will be happy with simply making the field at all now, like you said. There isn't anything special enough about them to expect anything too crazy or wonderful seeding wise. They are just a solid team. Nothing more nothing less.
 

Cyinthenorth

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I don't think this very often, but I do agree that TJ was outcoached last night.
Admittedly, yes. There was the opportunity for adjustments to be made at halftime, when we were only down 4. It didn't seem like he changed much about what we were doing schematically or with lineups until it was far too late. BYU stole his lunch and then ate it, right in front of him.
 

ClonerJams

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They broke our double teams very easily. Found their big in the middle and he did a good job at finding someone open on the perimeter.

I get we like to double team and create turnovers, but when they're killing you with open 3s it might be wise to try a different strategy.
 
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madguy30

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I am back to this too, now. I have gone back and forth all season long. Was encouraged by the fast start, as we were crushing opponents albeit teams that basically had no pulse. Thought the sky was potentially the limit. Then after Orlando, I resurfaced quite a bit and thought maybe this team is decent and can land a 6-10 seed in the NCAA Tournament. After blowing out Iowa and cutting thru the rest of non con like butter, I was back to thinking maybe a 4-5 seeded type of team that could compete for a top 5 Big 12 finish. After beating Houston and starting conference play 2-1 I was drinking all of the kool aid again. After last night I find myself ramping down again.

I ultimately think this team is just very average. They are good. They are not great. They don't have a lot of playmaking ability offensively, shot makers, and defensively they are only as good as the scheme allows. There will be really fun nights (in Hilton) and some really ugly nights (on the road). Might drop a game or two in Hilton, might be able to sneak a game or two on the road. We will see. I think this is still an NCAA Tournament team, but I will be happy with simply making the field at all now, like you said. There isn't anything special enough about them to expect anything too crazy or wonderful seeding wise. They are just a solid team. Nothing more nothing less.

The good news is there really aren't too many scary teams out there so with the right match up they might win a game or two in the tournament (if they get there).

It's a rare occasion for ISU to truly be elite on the full national scale so I guess I'm not sure what people are expecting.
 

Cyinthenorth

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The good news is there really aren't too many scary teams out there so with the right match up they might win a game or two in the tournament (if they get there).

It's a rare occasion for ISU to truly be elite on the full national scale so I guess I'm not sure what people are expecting.
It is all about being realistic, and I think for me at least, maybe other fans too, it has just been difficult to identify what that expectation should be for this team. We are legitimately halfway into the season now, and I think I am seeing things as I should. That doesn't mean I won't have a blow a gasket moment or two when we continue to lose games down the stretch!
 
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Cyclonepride

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The good news is there really aren't too many scary teams out there so with the right match up they might win a game or two in the tournament (if they get there).

It's a rare occasion for ISU to truly be elite on the full national scale so I guess I'm not sure what people are expecting.
Yeah, there's a reason TJ has been trying to build mostly with freshmen and the transfers for this year having multiple years of eligibility. I like that a lot for program stability, and next year has the chance to be even better (still not giving up on this year by any stretch lol).
 

Cyinthenorth

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They broke our double teams very easily. Found their big in the middle and he did a good job at finding someone open on the perimeter.

I get we like to double team and create turnovers, but when they're killing you with open 3s it might be wise to try a different strategy.
I noticed we switched to more of a man look in the 2nd half, but they picked us apart on that too, with screens and back door cutting. We could do nothing right, and they could do nothing wrong it seemed.
 

rochclone

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Admittedly, yes. There was the opportunity for adjustments to be made at halftime, when we were only down 4. It didn't seem like he changed much about what we were doing schematically or with lineups until it was far too late. BYU stole his lunch and then ate it, right in front of him.
I think we to recognize that there are just “spots” that set up really well for teams. We will be a far better team at home versus on the road given our shooting and the benefit of the crowd at home. BYU coming back home after a 2 game road trip to a team that is going to pressure you but allows good looks at 3 was a great spot for the Cougars. That game will play out much differently than in Ames in March.

I think we will play well at TCU but once again they are coming off a tough loss at Cincy and just beat Houston in Forth Worth.
 
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SolterraCyclone

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I think a defensive "adjustment" is probably a little harder than it sounds. We rotate on defense in a very specific manner. I'm sure our coaches drill it constantly and our guys are just conditioned to defend a rotate a specific way. It would be much harder than you think to, in the course of 2 days since our last game, say "ok, now we aren't rotating that way, we are playing straight up". And I'm not even sure you want to do that with how well it's worked in the past.

I think it's so engrained in them to play no-middle, trapping, over aggressive defense that it would be very hard not to do it for just one game.
It’s a pattern now where we are susceptible. Good-shooting offensive teams light us up because we are so aggressive with the trap that we give up open 3s. Iowa and Pitt last year. Virginia Tech, BYU this year. Those were more finesse but good 3-point shooting teams and they all killed us.

It’s pretty astonishing to look at the stats. ISU ranks 361st in opponent’s % of points from the 3 point line (41% of opponent points are from beyond the arc). Last year we were 337th with 37% of opponent points from beyond the arc.

We (and TJ) are lucky we don’t run into a lot of those teams in the Big 12. But we have to be able to adapt our defensive philosophy when we do play those teams. Because we aren’t competitive at all when we play them.

It also wouldn’t be as big of a problem if we were even average offensively, because we could keep up in a shootout. But our failure to put shooters on the floor limits us so much in the half court
 
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SolterraCyclone

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The good news is there really aren't too many scary teams out there so with the right match up they might win a game or two in the tournament (if they get there).

It's a rare occasion for ISU to truly be elite on the full national scale so I guess I'm not sure what people are expecting.
Going into the year my expectations were a 3 or 4 seed in the tournament. 12-13 wins in the Big 12. I lowered those after Orlando when the freshmen showed they weren’t going to be contributors (outside of Milan, who really is kind of a one trick pony at this point).

I still don’t think this is a tournament team (NIT is attainable). Even after Houston (which was a great win!), I didn’t see a ton offensively to make me think we’d make the tourney (poor shooting, struggled with defensive pressure, etc.)
 

Die4Cy

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Luckily, TCU happens to be the worst 3 point shooting team in the conference. At least defensively we won't need to extend things out so far on Saturday, which will help the defense shrink the passing lanes. That is, unless they have some rando go off on the guys, which is possible.
 

Antihawk240

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Life of the Cyclones in the Big 12. Go ahead and pencil a L for any away game. Don't care who they play. Go ahead and pencil a W for a home game. Don't care who they play. IF they lose at home, then they'll have to figure out a way to STEAL a win on the road. 500 in conference play should be considered very good.
 

CyPunch

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Luckily, TCU happens to be the worst 3 point shooting team in the conference. At least defensively we won't need to extend things out so far on Saturday, which will help the defense shrink the passing lanes. That is, unless they have some rando go off on the guys, which is possible.

I'd familiarize yourself with Trevian Tennyson before Saturday
 
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Cyinthenorth

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Going into the year my expectations were a 3 or 4 seed in the tournament. 12-13 wins in the Big 12. I lowered those after Orlando when the freshmen showed they weren’t going to be contributors (outside of Milan, who really is kind of a one trick pony at this point).

I still don’t think this is a tournament team (NIT is attainable). Even after Houston (which was a great win!), I didn’t see a ton offensively to make me think we’d make the tourney (poor shooting, struggled with defensive pressure, etc.)
Not an NCAA Tournament team? I think they would have to finish 12th or worse in the Big 12 to not get an invite. I don't have data to back that up or anything, but man, I think the wheels would have to come flying off. If they simply held serve at home, they are a lock.
 

MartyFine

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Not an NCAA Tournament team? I think they would have to finish 12th or worse in the Big 12 to not get an invite. I don't have data to back that up or anything, but man, I think the wheels would have to come flying off. If they simply held serve at home, they are a lock.

They're 10th NET and 15th in KemPom even after last night. If ISU won only 6 (so just 6-8 to finish regular season) more games I still think they get in. But I think if they stay healthy and get focused mentally they can better that finish.
 

SolterraCyclone

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Not an NCAA Tournament team? I think they would have to finish 12th or worse in the Big 12 to not get an invite. I don't have data to back that up or anything, but man, I think the wheels would have to come flying off. If they simply held serve at home, they are a lock.
I hope I’m wrong. And will gladly eat crow.

I think we’ll get to 8-9 wins in conference, which will put us on the bubble. I’m concerned with our lack of good OOC wins and lack of road wins (assuming we continue to struggle on the road). We also have struggled the last 2 years to close out conference play.
 

Cyinthenorth

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I hope I’m wrong. And will gladly eat crow.

I think we’ll get to 8-9 wins in conference, which will put us on the bubble. I’m concerned with our lack of good OOC wins and lack of road wins (assuming we continue to struggle on the road). We also have struggled the last 2 years to close out conference play.
All fair points I suppose. I am a little less concerned about closing conference play on a strong note. There won't be quite as much round robin/seeing teams for a 2nd time this year, so hopefully that gives ISU some advantage they haven't had the last 2 years.
 
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Cyclonepride

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I hope I’m wrong. And will gladly eat crow.

I think we’ll get to 8-9 wins in conference, which will put us on the bubble. I’m concerned with our lack of good OOC wins and lack of road wins (assuming we continue to struggle on the road). We also have struggled the last 2 years to close out conference play.
The Big 12 is so ridiculously strong that this will easily put them in.
 
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