Notre Dame Talk

[cykadelic2]

What does ND have to gain by joining the big12

1) Annual constant exposure to TX recruiting turf (Brian Kelly has publicly stated his desire for this)
2) More money (only getting paid by NBC for rights to home games, conference membership would pay them for 4 more conference road games)
3) ND membership in B12 would secure long-term stability of B12 and guarantee ND the following:
a) B12 provides full flexibility for 3rd tier rights (B10 does not); ND wants network similar to LHN. Joining B12 now would insure those rights.
b) Guaranteed future access to BCS
c) Sufficient scheduling flexibility for USC, Mich St/Purdue and Navy.

If a superconference scramble occurs and ND is forced to join a conference to maintain BCS access, ND options are limited to the ACC and B10 where they likely lose their much desired scheduling flexibility and they would limit their flexibility for 3rd tier rights and their own network like LHN.

 

[bdnichols2000]

Also, assuming they split back into division, the North would probably look pretty good to Notre Dame.

 

[Gonzo]

Why did Texas stay in the Big 12?? Probably the same reason why Notre Dame would want to stay in the Big 12. We are the only conference who is allowing teams to start there own TV Network. I would think a Notre Dame football network would bring in some major cha-ching for the University, especially with a schedule full of Big 12 South teams. If its all about money, which it seems to be, I think it makes a lot of sense. BYU also makes sense, they already have a network, they can join the league and keep there network. The Big 12 has a lot to offer as a conference.

ND could start their own network now. They don't need the Big 12 for that. Again, I don't think they're going to join any conference anytime soon. But if/when they go all in with conference membership, you can't underestimate the academic side of things. ND is not going to want to be part of a conference that's viewed as academically mediocre. That's one area in which the Big 12 would struggle when compared to the Big 10.

 

[cykadelic2]

Right now, they have full control over their TV rights, and full control over their scheduling. That is what they value so much.

What incentive do they have to join a conference right now? None.

The only thing that will push them toward joining a conference is when the programs that are staples on their schedule (Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, etc.) start having to play 9 conference games, those schools will have to face the decision we do in regards to playing Iowa. Those schools will want to load up on patsies and will not want to play an improving ND team and risk taking an L. Right now, this is not an issue for ND. ND is so much closer to joining the B16 (B1G) than the Big 12 that it isn't even worth talking about.

Too funny.

First sentence you state ND has full control over their TV rights which they value so much. Last sentence you state ND is so much closer to the B10 than the B12. With B12 membership, ND could keep their NBC deal for home games only and have their own 3rd tier network like the LHN. B10 membership doesn't provide that and it would be deal killer for ND.

 

[cykadelic2]

ND could start their own network now. They don't need the Big 12 for that. Again, I don't think they're going to join any conference anytime soon. But if/when they go all in with conference membership, you can't underestimate the academic side of things. ND is not going to want to be part of a conference that's viewed as academically mediocre. That's one area in which the Big 12 would struggle when compared to the Big 10.

ND is not an AAU member which in the past has been a prerequisite for B10 membership so I don't think B12 academics would be an issue for ND. If Nebraska was not an AAU member at the time they got voted in the B10, they would have not got in.

 

[Gonzo]

ND is not an AAU member which in the past has been a prerequisite for B10 membership so I don't think B12 academics would be an issue for ND. If Nebraska was not an AAU member at the time they got voted in the B10, they would have not got in.

Disagree. ND not being a member of the AAU wouldn't keep the Big 10 from extending an offer if ND was interested. That's insane. The Big 10 already offered ND membership about a decade ago and the Irish turned it down. Obviously ND's academics are outstanding. They're not a member of the AAU because they don't emphasize research as much as is necessary for AAU membership. Dartmouth isn't a member of the AAU either. If you don't think academic reputation of the conference would be a consideration for ND when joining a conference, I think you're kidding yourself.

 

[ISUAlum2002]

Too funny.

First sentence you state ND has full control over their TV rights which they value so much. Last sentence you state ND is so much closer to the B10 than the B12. With B12 membership, ND could keep their NBC deal for home games only and have their own 3rd tier network like the LHN. B10 membership doesn't provide that and it would be deal killer for ND.

Just because they have full control over their TV rights doesn't mean it's a necessity for them to keep those rights as part of a deal to join a conference.

And I don't think the other conference members are going to be too thrilled about yet another program coming into the conference and dictating their desires regarding TV rights. We've already seen one program in the conference get fired up about Texas and the crap they're trying to pull with the LHN, others are not far behind, I'm sure.

Like it or not, and whether you want to admit it or not, the B16 has a much better image than the Big 12 does right now and is much more appealing to ND at this time.

 

[cyman05]

ND could start their own network now. They don't need the Big 12 for that. Again, I don't think they're going to join any conference anytime soon. But if/when they go all in with conference membership, you can't underestimate the academic side of things. ND is not going to want to be part of a conference that's viewed as academically mediocre. That's one area in which the Big 12 would struggle when compared to the Big 10.

And they are starting their own network...that if ND were ever to join a conference, the Big 12 would be the only one you'd see it fitting in.

Athletics director confirms plans for Notre Dame Network

And I do underestimate the academic side of things (see Oklahoma State to the Pac16 and A&M's move to the SEC where 5/9 Big 12 schools are AAU members, but 2/12 SEC schools are AAU members). But the Big 12 is no slouch academically either. It's just not the Big 10 academically...In any case, academics isn't driving the boat.

 

[GrayBeardClone]

Disagree. ND not being a member of the AAU wouldn't keep the Big 10 from extending an offer if ND was interested. That's insane. The Big 10 already offered ND membership about a decade ago and the Irish turned it down. Obviously ND's academics are outstanding. They're not a member of the AAU because they don't emphasize research as much as is necessary for AAU membership. Dartmouth isn't a member of the AAU either. If you don't think academic reputation of the conference would be a consideration for ND when joining a conference, I think you're kidding yourself.

ND is more interested in money than anything else. Always have been and always will be. That is reason they have never joined a conference, they don't have to share TV and Bowl revenue. If you think otherwise then you are kidding yourself about so called integrity of ND.

 

[cyman05]

Just because they have full control over their TV rights doesn't mean it's a necessity for them to keep those rights as part of a deal to join a conference.

And I don't think the other conference members are going to be too thrilled about yet another program coming into the conference and dictating their desires regarding TV rights. We've already seen one program in the conference get fired up about Texas and the crap they're trying to pull with the LHN, others are not far behind, I'm sure.

Ummm...in the first place, everybody agreed to letting teams keep their 3rd tier rights a year ago when all this broke. But even so, you think one team right now in the Big 12 would vote to keep ND out because they're worried about the ND network's 3rd tier rights? I doubt it.

Like it or not, and whether you want to admit it or not, the B16 has a much better image than the Big 12 does right now and is much more appealing to ND at this time.

Nobody is arguing that. Of course the Big 10/16 is much more appealing right now. That doesn't mean that it is the best or most logical for ND going forward though.

 

[cyman05]

ND is more interested in money than anything else. Always have been and always will be. That is reason they have never joined a conference, they don't have to share TV and Bowl revenue. If you think otherwise then you are kidding yourself about so called integrity of ND.

I think there has to be more to it than money though. If money was the #1 concern, why not go to the Big 10?

I could be wrong, but I'd have to think that there'd be more money in the Big 10 than a Big 12 + ND network compensation.

 

[driegner]

With the B1G going to a 9 game schedule teams like Purdue, Michigan and Michigan State won't want to play them anymore.

With the Big East looking for more stability they may decide they don't want partial members anymore.

These two factors could really inhibit ND's ability to schedule quality opponents. NBC needs ND playing quality opponents to justify the price they pay.

AKA: If ND doesn't find a way to get quality opponents AND keep their non-football sports in a respectable and fiscally responsible condition they will need to change something drastically. Soon.

The fact that the Big 12 is specifically built to allow large teams a certain amount of latitude is really a big positive. The fact that DeLoss is buddy-bud with Swarbrick is also very good. The academics in the Big 12 being, at worst, respectable, is also a good thing. Giving ND some way to return to relevance has to have them licking their chops too. Playing Texas and OU? Talk about the big time. Didn't ND platy against Washington in San Antonio last year? ND alumns are nationwide.

The atmosphere right now is certainly ripe. Will it happen? I don't know, nobody knows. To say it's impossible is absurd.

 

[cykadelic2]

>>>>Just because they have full control over their TV rights doesn't mean it's a necessity for them to keep those rights as part of a deal to join a conference.>>>>

If that's the case, then don't stress their value to them of TV rights flexibility. You keep on contradicting yourself.

>>>>>And I don't think the other conference members are going to be too thrilled about yet another program coming into the conference and dictating their desires regarding TV rights. We've already seen one program in the conference get fired up about Texas and the crap they're trying to pull with the LHN, others are not far behind, I'm sure.>>>>>

Again, bogus rationale. Conference membership, not Texas, dictated that conference members can own 3rd tier rights and conference membership as well as the NCAA will determine what the LHN can and cannot do. A&M was too stupid and paranoid about Texas to deal with it so they fled to the SEC.

>>>>Like it or not, and whether you want to admit it or not, the B16 has a much better image than the Big 12 does right now and is much more appealing to ND at this time.>>>>>

Not quite sure how you are comprehending that the B10 has more appeal than the B12 for ND without any Southern recruiting turf that ND covets and without 3rd tier rights that ND also covets. I should not be surprised since you have been constantly contradicting yourself throughout this thread.

 

[InCytful1]

ND wants to keep their deal with NBC that provides national exposure - these are 1st tier rights. If they joined the Big12, wouldn't they lose those rights to the our existing contracts?

 

[isucy86]

Notre Dame & Big 12

ND to the Big 12 may make sense from a FB standpoint. Especially if Kelly can turn it around and they feel they can get their own TV deal similar to Texas.

However, the other driver is what is going to happen to the Big East? At some point if the Big 10, ACC or even SEC look to expand will they cherry pick the Big East members: UConn, Cincy, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Va.

IMO the current 16 team Big East in hoops is too big anyhow, maybe the hoops only schools get pushed into a conference with: St Johns, Villanova, Seton Hall, Providence, Georgetown, Marquette and DePaul with maybe a Butler and a few schools from the A10 like Temple, Xavier, Dayton or St. Louis.

It also wouldn't surprise me to see the greed that is dominating college football, start to develop in college hoops. I can see the ACC, Big 10, SEC, Big 12, Pac 10 and Big East (if it still around) move remove the financial incentive for the 300+ D1 hoops schools to exist. Sure we have had some great tourny runs by schools like Butler, George Mason & VCU- but maybe they have to win an NIT type tournament to play in the NCAA.

 

[Ficklone02]

I think one major thing that ND is up against when it comes to staying independent is scheduling. All these Big X & Pac 12 teams they schedule yearly may not be up for rescheduling given both those conferences will now probably have conference championship game, which will cause some of those schools to think twice before they schedule another tough out of conference game. Just saying, ND may be left out in the cold on scheduling at some point if they don't make a move.

 

[mikem]

We went over this last week. I don't get what is so complicated about all of this.

If ND to the fox 12 were going to happen, it would have happened last year. They are going to ride out Brian Kelly to see if he can make them nationally relevant again. I understand that our genetically challenged hawk fan friends don't understand the sweet deal that ND already has with the BCS, but they make a BCS game with 9-10 wins. This schedule sets up for that. They don't have to share money with anyone.

ND to the Big 12 is not very likely at all. What is more likely is UT joining ND, and even BYU, and creating a new league. This will be especially important for their secondary sports. This league will need teams, and I think that you will see teams from the current Big 12, and Big East go to a conference like that.

The fact that they are already creating a network indicates that a UT type deal is something that would be appealing to them.

 

[stateofmind]

Yes the B1G has a LOT of money right now thanks to the BTN. They should make more in 2015/16 as well will the Big XII, (If it's still around). That being said, here are the current deals as I understand them.

B1G:$1B/10 yrs/12 teams first tier = $8,333,333; $2.8B/25 yrs/12 teams second tier = $9,333,333. With equal revenue sharing, each team should get $17,666,666.

Big XII: $480M/8 yrs/10 teams first tier = $6,000,000; $1.17B/13 yrs/10 teams second tier = $9,000,000. With equal revenue sharing, each team should get $15,000,000. But as we all know, the Big XII doesn't do equal revenue sharing.

So, the B1G and Big XII are both due to renegotiate tier one in '15/'16. If the Big XII is still around, say because they negotiated a deal for a ND, tier one would be very sweet, considering the Pac 12 just got $3B. ND, with todays Big XII deal would get $15M/year on tier one and two, and then add a third tier of say $300,000,000/20 yr, like UT got and now they are making $30M/year by joining the Big XII with today's contract and assuming aTm was gone and ND was the tenth team.

I realize that the chances of the Big XII surviving until '15/'16 if aTm left, probably unlikely. I also don't know how much more Texas gets per year than ISU in the current tier one, but I would assume ND could get just as much which would make up for the difference in /team avg. As well, the new tier one contract WITH ND would break anything the Pac 12 got I'm sure, so the annual $would be much higher than $28M/year.

Confused with the crap above? I'm sure. All I'm trying to point out is that the Big X wasn't that much richer before the BTN, and if the Big XII can limp to renegotiation, it could make more than the B1G per team per year. So if your argument is that the B1G is so much better for ND than the Big XII, I say blah. If your argument is academics, you have some ground there, but Big XII is now slouch, so blah. If your argument is that ND already plays many B1G teams, then you have much more weight. All in all, I think smart people could fit ND into either conference so I wouldn't rule anything out.

So to you know-it-alls, you can stop with your ND will NEVER, EVER join the Big XII, 'cause you just don't know what these guys will do.

 

[Lyddea]

Yes the B1G has a LOT of money right now thanks to the BTN. They should make more in 2015/16 as well will the Big XII, (If it's still around). That being said, here are the current deals as I understand them.

B1G:$1B/10 yrs/12 teams first tier = $8,333,333; $2.8B/25 yrs/12 teams second tier = $9,333,333. With equal revenue sharing, each team should get $17,666,666.

Big XII: $480M/8 yrs/10 teams first tier = $6,000,000; $1.17B/13 yrs/10 teams second tier = $9,000,000. With equal revenue sharing, each team should get $15,000,000. But as we all know, the Big XII doesn't do equal revenue sharing.

So, the B1G and Big XII are both due to renegotiate tier one in '15/'16. If the Big XII is still around, say because they negotiated a deal for a ND, tier one would be very sweet, considering the Pac 12 just got $3B. ND, with todays Big XII deal would get $15M/year on tier one and two, and then add a third tier of say $300,000,000/20 yr, like UT got and now they are making $30M/year by joining the Big XII with today's contract and assuming aTm was gone and ND was the tenth team.

I realize that the chances of the Big XII surviving until '15/'16 if aTm left, probably unlikely. I also don't know how much more Texas gets per year than ISU in the current tier one, but I would assume ND could get just as much which would make up for the difference in /team avg. As well, the new tier one contract WITH ND would break anything the Pac 12 got I'm sure, so the annual $would be much higher than $28M/year.

Confused with the crap above? I'm sure. All I'm trying to point out is that the Big X wasn't that much richer before the BTN, and if the Big XII can limp to renegotiation, it could make more than the B1G per team per year. So if your argument is that the B1G is so much better for ND than the Big XII, I say blah. If your argument is academics, you have some ground there, but Big XII is now slouch, so blah. If your argument is that ND already plays many B1G teams, then you have much more weight. All in all, I think smart people could fit ND into either conference so I wouldn't rule anything out.

So to you know-it-alls, you can stop with your ND will NEVER, EVER join the Big XII, 'cause you just don't know what these guys will do.

The B1G paid out a bit over $22M per team in 2010. Your numbers are either dated or just wrong.

 

[Cydwinder]

Yes the B1G has a LOT of money right now thanks to the BTN. They should make more in 2015/16 as well will the Big XII, (If it's still around). That being said, here are the current deals as I understand them.

B1G:$1B/10 yrs/12 teams first tier = $8,333,333; $2.8B/25 yrs/12 teams second tier = $9,333,333. With equal revenue sharing, each team should get $17,666,666.

Big XII: $480M/8 yrs/10 teams first tier = $6,000,000; $1.17B/13 yrs/10 teams second tier = $9,000,000. With equal revenue sharing, each team should get $15,000,000. But as we all know, the Big XII doesn't do equal revenue sharing.

So, the B1G and Big XII are both due to renegotiate tier one in '15/'16. If the Big XII is still around, say because they negotiated a deal for a ND, tier one would be very sweet, considering the Pac 12 just got $3B. ND, with todays Big XII deal would get $15M/year on tier one and two, and then add a third tier of say $300,000,000/20 yr, like UT got and now they are making $30M/year by joining the Big XII with today's contract and assuming aTm was gone and ND was the tenth team.

I realize that the chances of the Big XII surviving until '15/'16 if aTm left, probably unlikely. I also don't know how much more Texas gets per year than ISU in the current tier one, but I would assume ND could get just as much which would make up for the difference in /team avg. As well, the new tier one contract WITH ND would break anything the Pac 12 got I'm sure, so the annual $would be much higher than $28M/year.

Confused with the crap above? I'm sure. All I'm trying to point out is that the Big X wasn't that much richer before the BTN, and if the Big XII can limp to renegotiation, it could make more than the B1G per team per year. So if your argument is that the B1G is so much better for ND than the Big XII, I say blah. If your argument is academics, you have some ground there, but Big XII is now slouch, so blah. If your argument is that ND already plays many B1G teams, then you have much more weight. All in all, I think smart people could fit ND into either conference so I wouldn't rule anything out.

So to you know-it-alls, you can stop with your ND will NEVER, EVER join the Big XII, 'cause you just don't know what these guys will do.

This is why I think most conferences will not expand. Less teams means more money per team.