Money suspended?
- Thread starter jmb
- Start date
Agreed.
Even if it was...misinformed. Money has indeed played wide receiver, including most of this season.
Than-you very much for the kind words and I sincerely mean that. I mostly quit posting on these message boards (especially the Iowa one) because I didn’t like the person I sometimes become and I take my actions pretty seriously. With that said it was not misinformed as I think you’ll note somewhere in this thread or a similar one I mentioned his stats. He has caught 296 yards worth of receptions and had 196 yards of rushing (which for all I know could have been while still playing QB) which again with all due respect aren’t the numbers of a polished D-1 WR which is all I have said. He is undoubtedly a fantastic athlete and has terrific potential but it was suggested he’d come in above what is already available and I find that highly unlikely. I honestly think he still considers himself a QB which we should all chase our dreams for sure, but getting beat out at a Juco doesn’t bode well in that regard and switching to WR for 6 or 7 games this year wouldn’t put him ahead of the curve for sure.
Wouldn’t you agree?
Chad
Well see, you're also leaving out the fact that the guys returning, while good players, aren't exactly accomplished and all American credentialed themselves. Yet. So they'll be starting on a pretty even footing, especially if Money is around for Spring ball.
Riddle me this:
What were Shonn Greene's numbers last year?-0-
What were his injury, fumble, etc issues like prior to JUCO. -nothing stellar although glimpses of hope.
Did Shonnn show he was going to be what/who he is? Nope.
Coaching staff saw something and brought him in the fold.
Maybe, just maybe Chizik knows more than you?! Think?
Ding, ding, huh?!?!?! Goodness gracious fellas if this were a Hawk fan saying this you’d call him delusional. In fact this is one of the reason’s I like this board as there seem to be a pretty fair amount of you fellas that are honest enough with yourselves to point out how hypocritical that often is. But I’m missing you on this one.
All the same I’m not telling you this kid wont play, I’m telling you it is highly unlikely a Juco WR who was originally a QB comes in and is miraculously better at the fundamentals of being a WR than last years phenom 4 star Johnson and Houston Jones whom I like a lot. Good gracious I have nothing to win or lose here, but you guys do. It seems more practical to know what you have going in.
Michael Crabtree took a year as a RS to learn the offense and how to be a WR at pass happy TT, not a Cali Juco. I’m not a buffoon here. Shonn Green is a terrible example. I will admit I didn’t expect this, but he had been here for 3 years before. He was a Prep player and probably 23 or 24, he was ALREADY a running back and came here through a Prep powerhouse that produces running backs. It isn’t even a one-off correlation let alone similar.
I guess if you wish go ahead and pencil him in as All-Big 12 but it seems unfair to him and to you. Herbie Hancock pre-ordained DJK as the best player coming out of Ohio and an immediate success as a WR for us, and you see how his transition from high school athlete/QB to WR has gone. I apologize as this is the kind of barbing I don't care for, but my logic is sound here. But you are certainly entitled to think as you wish. On a side note how do I keep posting this way, with the bottom part as small type.
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I agree w/ everything you posted except one thing. Making the jump from WR to QB is not as tough as you would think.
Randle El
Hines Ward
Matt Jones
Brad Smith
4 Guys in the NFL that played QB in college. They are all very athletic. If this kid is really athletic, than him being a polished WR won't matter as much, b/c he will be able to make up with it by his natural playmaking ability
Have you noticed how many catches Sedrick has this year? I love the guy, think he has a bright future, but he hasn't exactly set the world on fire yet. And someone like Money Reynolds could add some pizzazz we haven't seen for a while. That's what we're talking about when we refer to "best".
Then there's the fact that the rhetoric against him being immediately successful had slid from "never having played wideout" to "not having very many receiving yards". First off, there's an immense difference between the two. Secondly, neither argument factors in either the quarterback involved, or the possibility/likelihood of constant double or even triple teaming. Every team they play knows about Money.
I'd actually have to look at film before I could make an evaluation like that.
As you said, we have some decent receivers already--which is only going to cause problems for defenses trying to cover all of them in the first place. No more double teams on Money--and if they do, they'll pay. And I have no doubts about the ability of the Cyclone quarterback next season.
Gene Chizik has looked at film, and he's willing to go for a two year receiver. That tells me he's a difference maker. Otherwise, he'd just be looking at high school kids, if he thought it was going to take a year to develop soeone.
I would encourage you to show me where I said he is an all Big12? In fact Chad I said he isn't THE answer. But I will always take athletes. I trust Chizik more than I trust anyone on this board(with the exception of 33 who may have had a chance to be around the kid). You are making categorical assertions without much basis in fact. Nobody says he is THE answer-he may be a part of the solution. Geesh.
I used Shonn as an example of questionable outcomes from a JUCO. And were Iowa not so barren at RB without Shonn Kirk may have not taken that chance on him.
That's all fair enough, and to go any further would only be pouring lemonade in your sores. To clones85, you’re examples are good, but you are talking about 4 or 5 in a sample segment of hundreds who are out there probably more. Incidentally there are more than you have mentioned, but the one thing they all have in common is they all had a serious learning curve, with Brad Smith not being there yet, and Matt Jones being debatable. Though the difference between the NFL and College is understood and appreciated.
To Aclone, I wasn't trying to be sneaky or glib. As far as I'm concerned playing QB last year and becoming one this year constitutes never playing the position before, "this year"!
In closing, and I have had this debate ad nauseam on the Iowa board. Speed and athleticism is the most over rated attribute of a top shelf receiver. The next time I hear them or anyone else for that matter say........"What we need is a speed burner who can stretch the field" or "our receivers are possession receivers and not fast enough!" I'm afraid I'll punch myself in the face. Obviously now I'm a high strung guy and very animated, but it irks me to no end. The best WR's in the NFL are NOT typically speed burners. Sure there are some, but "speed" and it’s relevance in the NFL and in the Big 12, Sec, Big 10 is a hot button of mine and something I have researched in-depth.
Larry Fitzgerald ran a 4.63 if I remember, but he knows the position.
Boldin ran a 4.71, Jerry Rice a 4.6 something Chad Johnson in the 4.55's as did T.J Houshmandzadeh. I am in no way shape or form cherry picking here as this is an extensive list, but I'm getting bored and you will be to I imagine. Just know there are more 4.5-4.68 WR's in the NFL than 4.4's! Point being they are physical, smart, run great routes and know the position. They don't get by on their athleticism, which bringing this back full circle.........
If that is what money does, you'll be disappointed, I've seen first hand athletic players, trying to be a WR, it is a waaaaaayyy more advanced position than us fans give it credit for hence my insistence he will have some adjusting to do.
All in all though I have enjoyed the talk. It jogs my memory and strengthens my dialogue and debate skills.
Chad
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I guess I should have clarified that Money also split time at WR as a freshman, as well then. :yes:
He isn't all speed and athleticism. He has a head for the game. But it's not just his on field abilities that we're looking forward to, and in that respect, I doubt we'll be disappointed.
Well jmb, I kind of enjoy your sarcastic demeanor, as I can often be a tick sardonic and even a little caustic myself. Though I have tried hard to snuff that out of my dialogue. All that being said many, maybe not you, but many on here are just assuming because he is a 4 star he is “money†in the bank so to speak and that he is immediately even, if not above everyone else on the depth chart. Which ironically enough is another hot button of mine and one in which it strikes me as odd how people so quickly forget last years 4 star recruit that hasn't lived up to their expectations. Not just here but everywhere.
I didn't mean to imply "you" thought he would be all Big 12 but some do and it just strikes me as odd is all.
Chad
This is Iowa State, we have won 5 games in the last 2 years under Gene Chizik. We know that Chizik is waiting on getting his guys, Once that happens, We have something to be excited about. There is no reason to not be excited for a recruit that is 6'3 and runs a legit 4.4 Noone here is saying he is going to come in here and be jesus, But there is excitement, and guess what excitement does... It gets butts in the seats.
Dude, you are really getting on my nerves. Stop being so rational and civil with your discourse. You are ruining my Hawkeye fan prejudice. :smile:
ISU clones 33,
"""""This is Iowa State, we have won 5 games in the last 2 years under Gene Chizik. We know that Chizik is waiting on getting his guys, Once that happens, We have something to be excited about. There is no reason to not be excited for a recruit that is 6'3 and runs a legit 4.4 Noone here is saying he is going to come in here and be jesus, But there is excitement, and guess what excitement does... It gets butts in the seats."""""""
I understand and I apologize if I've taken this out too far as I'm not trying to rain on the parade. He looks like a nice "get". Now I hope I wont slay you with this next comment, but another thing that has always perplexed me is the "legit" 4.4 speed thing. Everyone says this, Iowa fans included only to find out 2 or 3 or 4 years later at a scouting combine he really runs a 4.58. Dwayne Jarret ran a legit 4.4 until he got to Indy and ran a 4.55! Money was listed as a 4.6 in High School so he got some serious wheels moving out to Cali?!? But seriously I’m not a big believer in 40 times meaning a lot so I’m only pointing something out that intrigues me. I hope I’m not offending.
snowcraig2.0,
Dude, you are really getting on my nerves. Stop being so rational and civil with your discourse. You are ruining my Hawkeye fan prejudice. :smile:
LOL……..This made me chuckle. Honestly from my perspective ISU and Iowa fans alike are typically pretty similar. Since my goal is to have interesting debate and conversation, not prove a point or pimp for my team I'm not terrible concerned with posturing. I usually, stressing "usually" can remain somewhat impartial, but that doesn't mean I can't be aggravating. I do typically defend my point aggressively, but I don't like to offend, so I do try to choose my words carefully.
Chad
"""""This is Iowa State, we have won 5 games in the last 2 years under Gene Chizik. We know that Chizik is waiting on getting his guys, Once that happens, We have something to be excited about. There is no reason to not be excited for a recruit that is 6'3 and runs a legit 4.4 Noone here is saying he is going to come in here and be jesus, But there is excitement, and guess what excitement does... It gets butts in the seats."""""""
I understand and I apologize if I've taken this out too far as I'm not trying to rain on the parade. He looks like a nice "get". Now I hope I wont slay you with this next comment, but another thing that has always perplexed me is the "legit" 4.4 speed thing. Everyone says this, Iowa fans included only to find out 2 or 3 or 4 years later at a scouting combine he really runs a 4.58. Dwayne Jarret ran a legit 4.4 until he got to Indy and ran a 4.55! Money was listed as a 4.6 in High School so he got some serious wheels moving out to Cali?!? But seriously I’m not a big believer in 40 times meaning a lot so I’m only pointing something out that intrigues me. I hope I’m not offending.
snowcraig2.0,
Dude, you are really getting on my nerves. Stop being so rational and civil with your discourse. You are ruining my Hawkeye fan prejudice. :smile:
LOL……..This made me chuckle. Honestly from my perspective ISU and Iowa fans alike are typically pretty similar. Since my goal is to have interesting debate and conversation, not prove a point or pimp for my team I'm not terrible concerned with posturing. I usually, stressing "usually" can remain somewhat impartial, but that doesn't mean I can't be aggravating. I do typically defend my point aggressively, but I don't like to offend, so I do try to choose my words carefully.
Chad
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Money was timed at workouts as a 4.42, and his brother told us that at KSU's camp they timed him at a 4.38--which even he seemed a little amazed at.
As far as HS times, we also understand that Money has grown three inches and put on twenty-five pounds since HS, so a little maturation.
Try out the YouTube videos. The're from high school, but still impressive.
My experience in Iowa City for the ISU Iowa game this September will make me forever disagree with the notion that ISU and Iowa fans are basically similar. There is a abnormally high percentage of 'jerkness' in the Hawk fanbase. You however seem to be a good dude.
My theory: you are a statistical anomolly.
:wink0st:
Well you must know my wife as she thinks I'm a statistical anomaly as well, but I think she means it in a derogatory way..........:biggrin:
Aclone,
Thanks for the note earlier and as for the 4.38 it seems I saw that as well. I'm just skeptical is all? And it has nothing to do with him being an ISU recruit. I can't tell you how many times these supposed 40 times at camps or K-st or any university ended up being .1 to.2 tenths higher. Though as I tried to indicate earlier a BIG WR that runs a 4.5 plus forty would be quite an athlete indeed.
