When everyone else started being able to pay players instead of them getting adidas recruits. They hate it and I love it. They are figuring out when everyone else can pay their boys, Bill Self is an average coach.
Kansas fan are dying
- Thread starter Drew0311
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I think they will be fine and Self is a good coach, but I 100% agree that KU and Self were running NIL with Adidas bag men before NIL was allowed. Will be interesting to watch their future now that they have limited advantage (except giant MBB donors).
Still think Self is one of the greats. And they paid for their best players, and don’t feel bad for them finishing lowly 3rd
I kind of think KU is struggling to deal with the free market. They can buy any player they want, but they are expected to go for the top names on the market regardless of fit. KU is a bunch of good players that don't compliment each other very well. I think it was telling how much Self complimented us on how our players fit together so well. I think there is a tacit admission in that statement that he doesn't feel the same about his team.
Seems premature to bury Kansas. They may not be top tier this year, but Self will get them back there.
I'd still say he's an elite coach
Even with the adidas advantages he used to have (though its certainly not like KU was the only team paying players, including ISU), winning the regular season again and again for so long is still nothing to sneeze at. Especially when (as we see now that we're finally having a season on that level), they get everyone's best shot night in and night out. Plus he had elite 8s at Illinois and Tulsa. He's had success everywhere he's been in his career.
Yes, they're a step back from what they used to be. And KU fans may eventually decide to throw him out for that (as otherwise they'd have to acknowledge that they used to hold an unfair advantage), but he is still a very good coach.
Hell, he still has a team that is top 10 in the computer metrics this year. They could get a lot worse when the next guy comes around.
Even with the adidas advantages he used to have (though its certainly not like KU was the only team paying players, including ISU), winning the regular season again and again for so long is still nothing to sneeze at. Especially when (as we see now that we're finally having a season on that level), they get everyone's best shot night in and night out. Plus he had elite 8s at Illinois and Tulsa. He's had success everywhere he's been in his career.
Yes, they're a step back from what they used to be. And KU fans may eventually decide to throw him out for that (as otherwise they'd have to acknowledge that they used to hold an unfair advantage), but he is still a very good coach.
Hell, he still has a team that is top 10 in the computer metrics this year. They could get a lot worse when the next guy comes around.
I have a theory that NIL is ruining their approach. Back in the day, they could keep a McDonald's All-American around for three years because that player was recruited to a specific role. Now, fans see the NIL figures and simply expect millions worth of players, regardless of the fit. I have no evidence to back that up, and I'm honestly pretty tipsy, but I'm convinced that's a contributing factor
I think this is exactly it. A team can pay for all of the best players, but if they don't mesh it's all for naught. When they buy those kinds of players they have a high chance of buying the ego that goes with it, and if they end up with 5 guys trying to be the man it's going to end in disaster. But this is also kind of a moot argument because while I think KU has a very good roster, it's not a "best that money can buy" roster. In the days of NIL I think those days are over for KU.
Meanwhile, compare with what's going on at ISU - we have a VERY good roster, but instead of just buying the best players available and hoping it works, each player brought in, especially from the portal, is a "team first" type of player that likes to work, and each serves a purpose. In other words, In other words, this the players brought in form the best TEAM that Otz could assemble for 2024-25... and that's why this team is off to its best start in 30 years.
demoncore1031
Well-Known Member
It would have been better for us to have Kansas win that game - since we already have the win over them and we need Houston to pick up a couple losses along the way. But I was definitely rooting for Houston, because **** Kansas.
They played Griffen and Storr a lot more in this game (no Adams) than they have all season, really. Griffen finally got on track, which could be problematic if he plays like he did today down the stretch (5-6 from three, and a lot more aggressive toward the end of the game).
But they were really screwed by the AJ Storr experience. Self should have known better than to add a ball-hog, me-first, team cancer like Storr to the mix. He's just a horrible fit. If I understand correctly - he's at his seventh school in the last seven years. He played at 4 different high schools / prep schools, and now 3 different colleges.
Their biggest problem right now, especially with Adams hurt, is that the only way they can play 4 guards is putting Storr at the "small ball 4" - and he can't guard the other team's 4. He's not a good defensive player, and especially not against someone bigger than him. Roberts ate him alive today - and Jefferson did against us too.
They played Griffen and Storr a lot more in this game (no Adams) than they have all season, really. Griffen finally got on track, which could be problematic if he plays like he did today down the stretch (5-6 from three, and a lot more aggressive toward the end of the game).
But they were really screwed by the AJ Storr experience. Self should have known better than to add a ball-hog, me-first, team cancer like Storr to the mix. He's just a horrible fit. If I understand correctly - he's at his seventh school in the last seven years. He played at 4 different high schools / prep schools, and now 3 different colleges.
Their biggest problem right now, especially with Adams hurt, is that the only way they can play 4 guards is putting Storr at the "small ball 4" - and he can't guard the other team's 4. He's not a good defensive player, and especially not against someone bigger than him. Roberts ate him alive today - and Jefferson did against us too.
I wonder how just like we were one of the first under Fred to hit the transfer market others will follow TJ's approach of fit from smaller schools over big name talents.
Nah every single team wants their guys to fit together but it takes a really smart leader and staff to be able to put together a cohesive roster. Certanly not calling Self dumb or anything I think Kansas is still a good team with lots of talent, but it's not easy to do what some of these coaches are doing. I also think Bill's Jayhawks are very good and that loss to Houston tonight won't ever happen again to this team. 100% self destructive ( no pun intended ) .
I think it's a bit more complicated to emulate TJ than it was to emulate Fred. You have to have a laser-focused plan, a staff on the same page, and more than all that, a very strong identity and knowledge of who you want to be. TJ & Co not only had all that, I think they hit on a whole string of overlooked players that fit their criteria to a T, and then had immediate success with them.
I don't like fKU one bit, but ragging on Self's coaching ability is a lame take. He's really good, and an obvious hall-of-famer. For the most part, he's also long been complimentary to ISU, he recognized before most others that we're their biggest rivals in the B12; not KSU, not OU or Texas when they were here.
I think it’s much simpler than that. Kansas wants to build around players who aren’t capable of leading. Hunter Dickinson is a perfect example - has all of the stats but watch him play. He’s soft as hell and certainly isn’t a big team leader. He doesn’t have the ability to put his team on his back and be “the guy”. Stoerr is another one. Kansas’ pieces don’t meld together like they need to to be a top 5 team.
Compare that to the dogs and leaders Iowa State or Houston has. They aren’t even close to having those pieces you need to be a top team in college basketball.
yeah.................... I'm not writing off ku yet.
Is it a different feel this year, oh yeah. Self can still coach and he still has guys that can play some ball.
All the years I remember it feeling like ku was off a bit, by post conference play they were looking good again.
Is it a different feel this year, oh yeah. Self can still coach and he still has guys that can play some ball.
All the years I remember it feeling like ku was off a bit, by post conference play they were looking good again.
Bill Self is easily in my top 10 of people I'd wanna have a beer with. So is Scott Drew. Judge me all you want but those guys know ball and have to have some awesome stories.
