Is teacher pay more important than the other variables for a good education?

[alaskaguy]

We may soon find out. The New York Times reports on a school that’s taking a punt on the growing body of teacher quality research, opting to pay its teachers seriously good salaries.

A New York City charter school set to open in 2009 in Washington Heights will test one of the most fundamental questions in education: Whether significantly higher pay for teachers is the key to improving schools.

The school, which will run from fifth to eighth grades, is promising to pay teachers $125,000, plus a potential bonus based on schoolwide performance. That is nearly twice as much as the average New York City public school teacher earns, roughly two and a half times the national average teacher salary and higher than the base salary of all but the most senior teachers in the most generous districts nationwide.

The school’s creator and first principal, Zeke M. Vanderhoek, contends that high salaries will lure the best teachers. He says he wants to put into practice the conclusion reached by a growing body of research: that teacher quality — not star principals, laptop computers or abundant electives — is the crucial ingredient for success. …

The school will open with seven teachers and 120 students, most of them from low-income Hispanic families. … Its classes will have 30 students. In an inversion of the traditional school hierarchy that is raising eyebrows among school administrators, the principal will start off earning just $90,000. It will have no assistant principals, and only one or two social workers.

Link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/07/nyregion/07charter.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
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[cycopath25]

As a teacher I think that pay is a determining factor for where many people look at taking jobs. (hence I am to teaching in Iowa)

 

[Phaedrus]

This will be interesting to see. I think the differential in pay may be more significant than the actual amount, though.

 

[CycloneWarrior]

I bet the kids get better grades now

 

[Gordyo5]

Being that I am in education I can only hope this study turns out well and that they do this for every school.

 

[brianhos]

We should tax those teachers at a significantly higher rate because they are the rich that have an unfair advantage over the rest of us. They are not deserving of that pay and thus it must be taken away from them by our glorious government and distributed back to the other teachers who do not make as much!

 

[Cy Heavy]

I'd be interested to see this "experiment" tried at more than one location besides the city with the highest cost of living in the Country.

 

[HandSanitizer]

I think what is holding back teachers is the fact that they get Christmas break off, Spring break and a few months off in the summer.
People always say they don't need more pay because they work 12 less weeks a year.
If I was making 30,000 for 52 wks that would = 14.42 hour
If I was making 30,000 for 40 weeks that would = 18.75 hour.
I know there is other things they may skew the numbers, but you get the point.

Conclusion: We should bump their pay up a little, but we need to worry about the midwest region for comparision. Comparing us to New York etc. is apples to oranges. Of course different states should make more since everything cost twice as much. Anyone been to California to buy a house? We should set a goal to be in the top 1/2 payers of teachers out of Mizzou, Neb, N/S Dakota, Minny, Ill and Wisconsin.

 

[cyclonenum1]

NO! The number one "variable" for a good education is involved parents that encourage/mandate their child(ren) perform at their highest level in school...whatever level that may be.

I live in an area where about half of the kids go to public schools and about half of the kids go to private schools (my kid goes to a private school). The public schools pay their teachers more and the public schools spend more per student...but the private schools have far superior results in terms of "quality of education" (higher test scores, college placement, etc.).

The biggest difference is that a far higher percentage of parents in the private school system "give a damn" whereas a significantly smaller percentage of parents in the public system do.

Throwing more taxpayer dollars at education is not going to improve the outcomes...history has shown us that time and time again yet we get this same old "solution" from out politicians...pathetic.

 

[Cyclone711]

It's been my experience that the best teachers don't teach for the pay.

 

[cyeah]

NO! The number one "variable" for a good education is involved parents that encourage/mandate their child(ren) perform at their highest level in school...whatever level that may be.

I live in an area where about half of the kids go to public schools and about half of the kids go to private schools (my kid goes to a private school). The public schools pay their teachers more and the public schools spend more per student...but the private schools have far superior results in terms of "quality of education" (higher test scores, college placement, etc.).

The biggest difference is that a far higher percentage of parents in the private school system "give a damn" whereas a significantly smaller percentage of parents in the public system do.

Throwing more taxpayer dollars at education is not going to improve the outcomes...history has shown us that time and time again yet we get this same old "solution" from out politicians...pathetic.

The parent involvement is where it is at. Our parochial school teachers pay is 80% of their public school counterparts and the education at the parochial school kicks the public schools' rear end.

Also the environment of the school is important.

Pay is overrated as an indicator.

 

[keepngoal]

I always thought it was the students effort that had the biggest effect on the quality of his/her education. And while it would matter the quality of the teacher, that variable, IMO, has the smallest effect on learning.

-keep.

 

[trScott]

I totally agree with cyclonenum1 - parental attitude/involvement is the number one factor. Now living in GA, the system here has tried to emulate IA's results without success. I went to IA public schools and we had a few good teachers, but most were average. My parents demanded success!

 

[markshir]

Good teachers get students involved in learning and get the best effort out of them. They get parents involved too.

Think back to classes where your teacher was terrible - then try telling me that all that matters is the effort individual students put forth.

 

[twojman]

NO! The number one "variable" for a good education is involved parents that encourage/mandate their child(ren) perform at their highest level in school...whatever level that may be.

I live in an area where about half of the kids go to public schools and about half of the kids go to private schools (my kid goes to a private school). The public schools pay their teachers more and the public schools spend more per student...but the private schools have far superior results in terms of "quality of education" (higher test scores, college placement, etc.).

The biggest difference is that a far higher percentage of parents in the private school system "give a damn" whereas a significantly smaller percentage of parents in the public system do.

Throwing more taxpayer dollars at education is not going to improve the outcomes...history has shown us that time and time again yet we get this same old "solution" from out politicians...pathetic.

Quit being rational! We all know the government is the most important thing! They make sure you are taught all the right things, they teach you how to think and what is good and moral.

I agree with your thoughts, but sadly I do not feel we are in the majority anymore. Here's to hoping for a change!

 

[cmoneyr]

We should tax those teachers at a significantly higher rate because they are the rich that have an unfair advantage over the rest of us. They are not deserving of that pay and thus it must be taken away from them by our glorious government and distributed back to the other teachers who do not make as much!

Oh you, you're just a barrell of laughs aren't you?

 

[cmoneyr]

I always thought it was the students effort that had the biggest effect on the quality of his/her education. And while it would matter the quality of the teacher, that variable, IMO, has the smallest effect on learning.

-keep.

Quality of the teacher has the lowest effect on learning...excuse me....HAHAHAHAHHAA. For that matter, why do we even have teachers? Can't we just put all the kids in the classroom with a security guard to keep them in order and have the kids teach themselves?

 

[Stormin]

Paying a person more doesn't guarantee performance. But on the other hand, it should attract a greater pool of teachers to choose from. Chances are that you may attract better teachers that may now be willing to relocate. But it will still be up to the school board to choose good teachers. Paying a lot of money doesn't guarantee performance.

 

[alaskaguy]

There are only so many variables that a school district can control; teacher pay, class size, curriculum content, building, etc.

I can see a school district being successful if they have "good" teachers but lack some of the other variables, but doubt that a school district can be successful without "good" teachers regardless of how small class sizes are, how much is spent on school facilities, etc.

Teachers may not "teach for pay" but many of the best teachers leave when they realize that they can earn considerably more from other occupations.

 

[HandSanitizer]

If I sent my kid to Private they would do good b/c if I was paying college tuition type of money for a 9th grader, I would woodshed beat them if they were doing bad. I would be upset if they performed bad at any school, but if I was paying extra money....that might set me off.

I think small towns (Bondurant) this whole theory gets thrown out the window. Its almost a combination of private and public together. Parents are forced to deal with their children where in big schools kids get lost and its easier to "mail it in" as a parent.