I'm sorry to say it, but there needs to be some questions on Herman as OC

[CYinPA]

Name me 1 BCS team that runs the spread and uses a short-yardage back? When Woody is in teams are now covering 3 WR'sand a TE with 5 DB's. That's 5 on 4. Then you put 6 in the box with 5 blocking them and a non-explosive RB and average QB. That equals no offense. Spread teams must have explosion at the skill spots, the line can be average because the ball gets out so quick they don't have to hold their blocks
long. When your livelihood is at stake you take drastic measures. Keeping your speed in the stall is not one them. Thanks for listening to this 10 gallon hat wearing Texan.

Well the point of this thread is about concern with the spread, and the lack of personnel we have to run it effectively. So you are at the right place.

Do not take this the wrong way, but have you watched Woody? The reason why he plays is because he is explosive the first 10 yards, thus like you say, the Oline does not have to hold their blocks as long. He is the quickest to the hole. He is also the most powerful/biggest runner, so he also gets carries that will decrease his average. He has two weaknesses: lack of wiggle and top-end speed. That is why Johnson plays over him. It is likely why he will not be a feature back.

The last part is key. Woody is not the feature back. He does not simply sub in for ARob- Johnson does. When we want a change up, Woody comes in. More often than not, it has been successful.

I was just as skeptical as you that a former walk-on could improve so much to be in the rotation. I thought it was motivation. Maybe he was going to give us flexibility when on the few occasions we where out of the spread. After watching every game, it is clear why he sees the field.

 

[hawkfan2679]

The spread might be the most QB-centric offensive system in all of football. For an extreme example of what spreads look like with and without stellar QB play, look at Florida. Year after year they are bringing in top recruits, have boatloads of talent, but look at what happened to their offense now that Tebow is gone. They dropped a bit when they lost Harvin, but I don't think anyone expected them to drop this far after losing Tebow.

The other thing about the spread...when it first started being used, it was utilized as an equalizing offense, allowing teams with lesser talent to be competitive with more talent. But now, with so many teams running it and having to defend it, it almost seems to amplify the talent gap, giving those same less talented teams fewer opportunities for success.

 

[tazclone]

Here's a quick example, who offered Woody (Iowa kid)? No one! We need some explosion on offense and everyone is excited about his 2.2 yards a carry but you have a guy like D. Hollis redshirting! Hollis is one of the mist explosive kids we have and he has the size to compete right now! This guy had offers from the Hawkeyes, Baylor, Kansas, and KState. Do you think he is happy right now sitting behind a kid that was a walk-on? He turned down schools much closer to home because someone told him he had a chance to compete this year! This is why they come home! If your gonna recruit them to play here, play them or they will go home! Now, I'm done!!

Kinda disproves your theory that Rhoads is doing something that Chizdick and DMac didn't. You came on here and stated Rhoads was getting more kids from Texas and that is why you are a fan. Yet you provide an example of an Iowa kid with no offers beatig out a Texas kid.
So tell me again what Rhoads is doing different with Texas kids? I am confused.

 

[cyclonenum1]

While I think he is limited with talent at skill positions and at the Quarterback position, our offense was poor last year and even worse this year. I would hope in year two of his system we would be showing progress. I think if anything we've taken steps back this year. I really think some questions need to be asked on his skills as an OC.

We got a great lesson on how to run an up tempo style of offense last weekend. OU got to the ball and before ISU got set defensively, Jones had thrown the ball and the WR was running down field. None of this pausing and checking with the sideline for whatever they're doing there, none of a bunch of song and dance for a 4 yard out pass to Franklin, etc. We absolutely have no rythym to our offense, our QB play is poor to say the least, and I'm not sure we always put our players in position to be successful.

I know alot of you will say we need a new QB, and put all of our miscues on offense on AA's shoulders, but I am suggesting some questions/blame need to be put on Herman's skills as an OC.

I would say questions are warranted on both sides of the ball. Our offense has been inept for the most part but our defense has been equally inept against the quality opponents we have played.

 

[cyclonenum1]

Name me 1 BCS team that runs the spread and uses a short-yardage back? When Woody is in teams are now covering 3 WR'sand a TE with 5 DB's. That's 5 on 4. Then you put 6 in the box with 5 blocking them and a non-explosive RB and average QB. That equals no offense. Spread teams must have explosion at the skill spots, the line can be average because the ball gets out so quick they don't have to hold their blocks
long. When your livelihood is at stake you take drastic measures. Keeping your speed in the stall is not one them. Thanks for listening to this 10 gallon hat wearing Texan.

I totally agree. You need a QB that can make good quick decisions and get rid of the ball and skill guys that can do something with it in space once they get it (ie: guys that have speed and quickness).

 

[tazclone]

My response to your 5 points....

1. Have you ever watched Arnaud force the ball into double coverage? I have seen it far too many times. We can't get the QB play we need when the QB is making poor decisions throwing the football.

2. Austen Arnaud is 108 of 186 throwing the football this season for 58%. Are you telling me that the receivers have dropped 78 of his perfectly accurate passes? I didn't think so.

3. Arnaud tries to throw the ball deep from time to time. And in quite a few of our passing plays at least one receiver will be streaking down the field. In the Texas Tech game Arnaud had some long completions. Did you notice some of the freaking miracle catches that our receivers had to make. Money diving for one, Lenz diving for another while covered, and Franklin making a leaping grab falling backwards with 2 defenders in his face. These were great plays by the receivers on balls that 9 times out of 10 wouldn't be caught. Maybe the receivers don't suck as bad as you claim they do.

4. Austen has been sacked 9 times in 7 games. That is 1.29 sacks per game. With his quick and short throwing tendency I wouldn't say the O-line has been doing him wrong here. In fact there have been plenty of times when he has had all day to throw and misfired.

5. Have you ever watched those spread teams you mentioned? They throw the ball short and most importantly..... accurately so their receivers can get in space with a full head of steam and make big yardage. Hell... on our short throws you see guys picking the ball off the ground, turning around because the ball is way behind them, or flat out having to stop completely just to be able to catch a less then accurate pass. Kind of hard to go anywhere when they lose all momentum just trying to catch poorly thrown balls.

1. This is exaggerated. Although he does throw into double coverage it is not as often as people think. It is hard to throw into double coverage "far to many times" when you are throwing short routes. Those are usually single coverage. His biggest mistakes are deep across the middle against umbrella coverage where he doesn't get enough air under the ball to get it over the LB. Not throwing into double coverage
2. Add 14 catches(2 per game) onto that and then give me a completion %. You need to go back and read where I said, I understand that AA misses throws and I don't think he is the perfect fit for this system. I am just asking for our receivers to cut their drops in half. Catch the easy ones. If they do that then we are looking at a QB with a 64-66% completion. Pretty good and average for the system. I think AA is just that in this system...average.
3. I see those catches made every single Saturday by other teams. I just provided examples and I can provide examples every Saturday. Money was hit in stride on his TD catch. Great throw and one AA usually doesn't make. Lenz didn't dive, He jumped up and over the defender. Those were good D1 catches. Catches that receivers should make 50% of the time (except Franklin). We don't make them 50% of the time. I saw 5-6 TDs last saturday that were identical to Lenz. The fact that you think they should be made 10% of the time is very telling. BTW- Did you notice you didn't mention 1 starting receiver? Tell me the last time Williams, Darks and Johnson made "good-great catches". I can tell you the last time they had "drops." Not tough catches but flat out drops. If AA is as inaccurate as you claim and our receivers are as good as you claim, you should be able to come up with many great catches.
4. With a short passing game, that is not good. When do you think those sacks happen? When he is throwing short passes or when he he is trying to pick up third and long. The two against KSU happend in the last two series when KU was rushing three and they weren't coverage sacks. They were horrible blocking where our guys got beat in a hurry. One led to a fumble.
5. You greatly over exaggerate AA's inaccuracy in the short passing game. His short game passing has been pretty good since the bowl game last year. Minny last year, he hit guys in stride. NIU hit guys in stride, Iowa in the first half hit guys in stride, KSU the guy had two bad passes in the first three quarters other than that he hit every throw in stride. Two drives in the fourth and KSU was dropping 8, rushing three, and getting pressure. 4 of his six incompletions in the first three quarters against KSU were thrown well to single coverd guys and defenders got a hand on the ball. I won't mention Utah and OU because we got killed. AA has played three games against teams not in the top 10. In those three games, he has thrown for 75% completion, 55%(he was 66% before getting hurt), and 71%. Against Iowa, he was 0-3 with two drops and we were down 21-0 before he threw his 4th pass. That game is not on him. Those two drops would have extended drives and would have given our defense rest (not that it would have mattered). Minny last year, he was 75% completion. I am not sure how people can say he has not improved his accuracy. Since Minny last year, he has a 70% completion against teams not ranked in the top 10. BTW- 66% gaisnt KSU before he got hurt...KSU is #9 in pass efficiency defense. iowa is 19th and Utah is 16th.

Again, AA is not perfect for the spread, He misses throws and 2-4 times a game makes bad decisions. I have no issue saying that. But people are crazy to think that we have the receiving corp to run this offense. We don't. We have a couple cogs but not enough. Hopefully, Jennert, Gary, Young (rumored to have dropsies), West, Ecby, or Lampkin are those guys. We also don't have the OL where we want them. So we don't have any of the pieces. I have heard CPR state that we need to quit shooting ourselves in the foot with drops and penalties more than once this year.

People keep claiming that QB accuracy is the most important quality in this offense but what is odd is Tiller remains ahead of Capello even though we have heard the coaches talk about Capello being the most accurate QB. Why is he third string if accuracy is the number one priority? That just doesn't make sense.

 

[tazclone]

The spread might be the most QB-centric offensive system in all of football. For an extreme example of what spreads look like with and without stellar QB play, look at Florida. Year after year they are bringing in top recruits, have boatloads of talent, but look at what happened to their offense now that Tebow is gone. They dropped a bit when they lost Harvin, but I don't think anyone expected them to drop this far after losing Tebow.

The other thing about the spread...when it first started being used, it was utilized as an equalizing offense, allowing teams with lesser talent to be competitive with more talent. But now, with so many teams running it and having to defend it, it almost seems to amplify the talent gap, giving those same less talented teams fewer opportunities for success.

Tebow played three years at Florida. In those years that he played Florida had 5 receivers go to the NFL and are still on NFL rosters. considering that Tebow is not known for his great passing ability, is it possible that Florida's succes was a combination of Tebow AND a very good WR corp? Two above average units working together? Keep in mind that Florida's/Tebow's production dropped after the two most talented receivers were drafted. Is it possible that the spread needs both? Name one highly productive spread attack that did not have both.

 

[d4nim4l]

1. This is exaggerated. Although he does throw into double coverage it is not as often as people think. It is hard to throw into double coverage "far to many times" when you are throwing short routes. Those are usually single coverage. His biggest mistakes are deep across the middle against umbrella coverage where he doesn't get enough air under the ball to get it over the LB. Not throwing into double coverage
2. Add 14 catches(2 per game) onto that and then give me a completion %. You need to go back and read where I said, I understand that AA misses throws and I don't think he is the perfect fit for this system. I am just asking for our receivers to cut their drops in half. Catch the easy ones. If they do that then we are looking at a QB with a 64-66% completion. Pretty good and average for the system. I think AA is just that in this system...average.
3. I see those catches made every single Saturday by other teams. I just provided examples and I can provide examples every Saturday. Money was hit in stride on his TD catch. Great throw and one AA usually doesn't make. Lenz didn't dive, He jumped up and over the defender. Those were good D1 catches. Catches that receivers should make 50% of the time (except Franklin). We don't make them 50% of the time. I saw 5-6 TDs last saturday that were identical to Lenz. The fact that you think they should be made 10% of the time is very telling. BTW- Did you notice you didn't mention 1 starting receiver? Tell me the last time Williams, Darks and Johnson made "good-great catches". I can tell you the last time they had "drops." Not tough catches but flat out drops. If AA is as inaccurate as you claim and our receivers are as good as you claim, you should be able to come up with many great catches.
4. With a short passing game, that is not good. When do you think those sacks happen? When he is throwing short passes or when he he is trying to pick up third and long. The two against KSU happend in the last two series when KU was rushing three and they weren't coverage sacks. They were horrible blocking where our guys got beat in a hurry. One led to a fumble.
5. You greatly over exaggerate AA's inaccuracy in the short passing game. His short game passing has been pretty good since the bowl game last year. Minny last year, he hit guys in stride. NIU hit guys in stride, Iowa in the first half hit guys in stride, KSU the guy had two bad passes in the first three quarters other than that he hit every throw in stride. Two drives in the fourth and KSU was dropping 8, rushing three, and getting pressure. 4 of his six incompletions in the first three quarters against KSU were thrown well to single coverd guys and defenders got a hand on the ball. I won't mention Utah and OU because we got killed. AA has played three games against teams not in the top 10. In those three games, he has thrown for 75% completion, 55%(he was 66% before getting hurt), and 71%. Against Iowa, he was 0-3 with two drops and we were down 21-0 before he threw his 4th pass. That game is not on him. Those two drops would have extended drives and would have given our defense rest (not that it would have mattered). Minny last year, he was 75% completion. I am not sure how people can say he has not improved his accuracy. Since Minny last year, he has a 70% completion against teams not ranked in the top 10. BTW- 66% gaisnt KSU before he got hurt...KSU is #9 in pass efficiency defense. iowa is 19th and Utah is 16th.

Again, AA is not perfect for the spread, He misses throws and 2-4 times a game makes bad decisions. I have no issue saying that. But people are crazy to think that we have the receiving corp to run this offense. We don't. We have a couple cogs but not enough. Hopefully, Jennert, Gary, Young (rumored to have dropsies), West, Ecby, or Lampkin are those guys. We also don't have the OL where we want them. So we don't have any of the pieces. I have heard CPR state that we need to quit shooting ourselves in the foot with drops and penalties more than once this year.

People keep claiming that QB accuracy is the most important quality in this offense but what is odd is Tiller remains ahead of Capello even though we have heard the coaches talk about Capello being the most accurate QB. Why is he third string if accuracy is the number one priority? That just doesn't make sense.

Just to add to your points (I agree with you) and further point out the inaccuracy of the previous poster...

1. Lenz's catch against Tech was a designed back shoulder fade. Arnaud threw it to only where Lenz could get it.

2. Franklin's catch was spectacular, and something you expect out of a TE on the Mackey Award watch list. Fact is, those plays happen frequently in all kinds of offenses.

3. Arnaud has been fairly accurate this year as a whole and believe it or not did not turn the ball over last week despite running for his life.

4. Rarely have I seen him take a coverage sack this year. Occasionally on 3rd and long he has, which speaks more to our failures on 1st and 2nd and our inability to get open. When he is taking sacks early in drives it's because the line is completely overwhelmed and he has no time to decide. This becomes a play calling issue if the line is that poor. People should watch our good teams with subpar lines call their plays. A lot of plays to the outside that leave the quarterback's hands quickly.

 

[hawkfan2679]

Tebow played three years at Florida. In those years that he played Florida had 5 receivers go to the NFL and are still on NFL rosters. considering that Tebow is not known for his great passing ability, is it possible that Florida's succes was a combination of Tebow AND a very good WR corp? Two above average units working together? Keep in mind that Florida's/Tebow's production dropped after the two most talented receivers were drafted. Is it possible that the spread needs both? Name one highly productive spread attack that did not have both.

No, you are absolutely right. It was an extreme example...Tebow was a great college QB, but Harvin really gave that offense a whole extra dimension. One complemented the other very well...I don't know that you can be highly productive without both. In the spread, however, having average to below average QB play will take the offense south quicker than anything.

 

[weR138]

I would say questions are warranted on both sides of the ball. Our offense has been inept for the most part but our defense has been equally inept against the quality opponents we have played.

I respectfully disagree.

The defense is undermanned and undertalented which as of now is not Wally's fault. Our defense is spending far too much time on the field with the same players seeing far too many minutes.

The offense must sustain drives (and score more than zero points) for the defense to remain sharp.

I fully support Herman though. I'm confident that by year four we'll see the improvement we hope to see.

 

[d4nim4l]

Surprisingly, my concerns with the defense aren't that high. Just like weR said, they have spent a lot of time on the field. For the first half of the Utah game our guys were in the right position to make the play but failed to execute at times. The rest of the game was simply quitting.

Last week they got outplayed to start and then it snowballed when the offense could not respond appropriately.

 

[KMAC_ATTACK]

Guys - i agree with a lot of your points but we cannot point the finger at Arnaud without point the finger at the RB, OL, WR and even TE.....

Theres a reason so many short passing plays are called....the OC cannot trust the line to maintain blocks. its better to get a 3 yard gain then a 9 yard loss, this offense is not built for long yardage with the players we currently have. Seriously our starting 3 wide receivers have 461 yards receiving and 3 td's....now theres something to be said there....remember before the season all the talk about how good SJ has looked? Well he has a whoppin 94 yards receiving through 6 games....

To me, our OL play has been up and down...how so....no consistency.....the loss of Haughton is a lot bigger then any of us will like to admit. IMO he will be playing on sundays, he's a big interior lineman with a bit of a nasty side...those guys find their ways on to rosters....But, our main trouble has been with blitz pickup and quick pressure off the edges....I know KO may have only given up one sack so far this season, but i would be interested to see the qb hurries.....

What i see in AA is a lot of what we saw in Meyer his final year. He had gotten into a fear of being smacked because he takes hits due to the excessive pressure brought by our opponents. Its easy for our opponents Def preparation, they know they only have to guard the first 15 yards and bring pressure. Under those circumstances, we will either turn it over or get sacked.....

Question - How many times on 3rd and 6 have you seen the opposing team bring pressure and after AA throws an errant throw, they show AA smacking his fist into his hand.......almost saying "Dang it i had more time to make a better throw"....

Not all his fault: whens the last time anyone can remember a WR running wide open and free and AA make a really bad throw....maybe Arob in the KSU game for me.....To me, our WR's lack that gitty up to get separation and without that, qb's will throw interceptions because theres simply no room for error.....you watch even the best qb and they make throws behind guys or high etc etc...

There are a bunch of reasons this offense is not being as successful as we had all hoped. But, you cannot get me to agree that its all AA....if it were he would be out i can guarantee that......Rhoads is not starting him because he personally likes AA, he's starting him because he thinks this kids is his best chance to win games. That said, in order for AA to be better, the line has to block better, the RB have to block better and gain more yards when given the opportunity. The TE needs to block better. The WR have a lot of room for improvement....right now Luke Wells better get goin or he will need to be replaced. The WR do not block well at all. If you want to see how a WR should block go back to KU gametape last year...those WR could block and thus the running game had the outside lanes to run through and the bubble screens were more effective.....our wr engage block for 1 second and then release.....not enough guys....you'd think after getting manhandled by these db all day long they would cherish the opportunity to block...not so.....

Every position needs to improve and so do the coaches...if anyone player on that offense thinks theyre doing all they can then they need to be sat down because its the collective unit not just one player or two players......Lets not forget the coaches as a whole, the offensive coaching staff really need to figure out better game plans and execution......

 

[tazclone]

Bottom line for me is if I was to rank which units are to blame, QB would be first, Oline second, and WR last (primarily because they are more dependent on the first to doing their jobs). None of them are playing well enough to cover for each other, so it could be said none of them are "helping" each other.

As for the bubble screens/outs/swing passes, those will not work that well when seemingly everything you run is with in 10-15 yards. Too many defenders coming down hill and/or near the line scrimmage. The WRs are set up to fail in the same way the OLine is on running plays. Then you add that the ball is hardly ever placed where it needs to be on those passes, and it is a disaster. Of course, if the WRs were All-Americans or Big 12, they could overcome this to some degree.

I did not mean you do not need any playmakers (although you do not need an entire fleet). I did imply that we have seen less physically gifted guys become playmakers because of different routes/timing that we cannot have with AA. We are in trouble if this offense needs the roster of NFL guys like Mizzou, Utah, Florida, Ok State to have enough playmakers to work.
Look at how this offense did against BCS schools at Rice. By the way, wasn't Casey a TE, not a WR?

Which leads me to my final disagreement. With the right QB, which would allow for the right routes, Franklin could be a guy that takes a 10 yard pass and makes it a 40-50 yard one. He has done it before.

Bolded parts

1. I agree. The routes do not help us. do we run those routes because of AA, the system, or the WR corp? I think those routes are common in the system. I don't see a lot of spread teams taking shots downfield and our WRs do not require safety help if they do run deep routes so the safety is kept in the box. Hurts the short stuf and hurts the run game. Plus AA will miss the throw 25% of the time.
2. Who are the less talented WRs that have become playmakers in this offense? No one can provide me that answer. every explosive offense has had an explosive, very talented receiver

 

[tazclone]

Bottom line for me is if I was to rank which units are to blame, QB would be first, Oline second, and WR last (primarily because they are more dependent on the first to doing their jobs). None of them are playing well enough to cover for each other, so it could be said none of them are "helping" each other.

As for the bubble screens/outs/swing passes, those will not work that well when seemingly everything you run is with in 10-15 yards. Too many defenders coming down hill and/or near the line scrimmage. The WRs are set up to fail in the same way the OLine is on running plays. Then you add that the ball is hardly ever placed where it needs to be on those passes, and it is a disaster. Of course, if the WRs were All-Americans or Big 12, they could overcome this to some degree.

I did not mean you do not need any playmakers (although you do not need an entire fleet). I did imply that we have seen less physically gifted guys become playmakers because of different routes/timing that we cannot have with AA. We are in trouble if this offense needs the roster of NFL guys like Mizzou, Utah, Florida, Ok State to have enough playmakers to work.
Look at how this offense did against BCS schools at Rice. By the way, wasn't Casey a TE, not a WR?

Which leads me to my final disagreement. With the right QB, which would allow for the right routes, Franklin could be a guy that takes a 10 yard pass and makes it a 40-50 yard one. He has done it before.

I will address this separate because it is HUGE!

1. Rice did absolutely horrible agaisnt BCS schools with Herman's offense. Horrible. 0-5. Clement threw for 62% compl against BCS opponents. 66% in 2008 and yet they lost and failed to put up decent scoring numbers. They scored 21 against Vanderbilt, 10 against Texas(in a 42 point blowout ), 14 against Texas ( 58-14 game), 17 against Baylor (42-17 game), 24 against TT (59-24 game).
2. Casey was a TE but they also had a NFL caliber receiver in Dillard who was their big play guy. He averaged more per reception that Casey, had more tDs than Casey, and his long was 80 yards. Against BCS opponents Dillard had catches of 47,48, and 51 yards. Casey had one over 16 and it was 31 yards. So a team that had an NFL caliber WR and TE and a QB that many claim is hands down better than AA only scored 17 points on Baylor and 21 points on Vanderbilt.
3. When you get a chance look at the drive summaries in those games. They are eerily similar to ours. A lot of 3-5 play drives with a couple good drives sprinkled in

 

[d4nim4l]

The only defense I will make of Herman in those Rice vs BCS opponents stats is Rice had nowhere near a running game at all. Unfortunately we are seeing some of the same issues this year with the line failing to sustain blocks. We have the talent in the backfield, just not the consistency up front.

 

[tazclone]

So you think that AA does not shoulder most of the blame (60-70% overall imo) for the low offensive output the past two years? I find that incredible. The impact of not having an accurate QB in the spread is propagated as much as bad Oline play (which we have not had sans OU and Iowa).
Good lines/average lines, WR drops/no WR drops, tough opponents/easy opponents...two things have been fairly consistent: 1.) Poor offensive output. Why? 2.)Mostly because of poor QB play.
Timing, accuracy, and quick reads are the most important aspect of the spread QB. AA does not excel in any of those areas.


Taz?
3-5 to WR play virtually every snap, not too mention special teams. 10 WR in two-three years tells you nothing! Only 1 QB is on the field at a time. Yet we have recruited 4! 4 scholarships for 1 position vs 10 scholarships for 3-5 position. Nothing odd about it, QB play must be the highest priority to correct and have the biggest impact...i.e, it can cause the most (60-70%) problems.


We hardly run slants because you have to be accurate to run the slant. There is no chance to turn it 5 yards when you have to stop to catch a ball behind you. Drop offs are even worse. Guys like Johnson (Rabbit), who clearly can break loose, are bottled up by AA's throws. We have all seen less formidable athletes have bigger plays in other offenses at ISU. Heck, the we saw some of the same WR play better when AA was not in this offense. The spread is handicapped by AA.
If ISU needs NFL WR to make this offense go, we are in big trouble.


Ones with bad QB play is where to look. The fact that you need NFL talent at WR to overcome AA in this offense is exactly what we are saying. To trivialize my point, if we had 5 NFL 1st round WR, this offense may be average. The fact that we do not, and the subsequent subpar play, does not make the burden mostly on the WR. It is mostly on AA.


The coaches also said AA was the most improved...he is not this in games. One thing they have also hinted at is that the need for better QB play. Again, it is VERY unlikely that an entire unit would regress in something like catching balls, unless it was due to what they had to catch. Maybe AA has improved so much in practice that his throws in the games are catching them by surprise?


Everything you list here can be partially explained by poor QB play and somewhat improved with good QB play. I realize he is close to 65% I also realize few teams run the type of routes we do- other wise the % would drop.


I have seen similar WR units at ISU play much better in offenses that do not place the burden of needing such consistent accuracy on the QB.

So many issues with this. SOOO many

1. Originally you said 5 QB's now it is down to 4. It is three. The only person that thinks Daniel's is being recruited to play QB is Daniels. he will not be a QB
2. 10 WR is huge. TT averges 2-3 per year. Not 3-4. Its more than we have taken on the OL and DL. You say 3-5 WR are on the field at the same time well guess what 5 OL and 5 DL are on the field every single play. Not 3-5. When CPR took over the first thing they went after is WR. It is very telling. This year they took 2 and that is it. 2 times 5 equals ten and we will never see more than 5-6 catch balls in a game. FWIW- We have only had 5 receivers catch passes this year. 7 last year and that is due to injuries. We have had at least 7 OL and 9 DL play this year. We have not seen 8-9 WRs play.
3. We have all seen less formidable athletes have bigger plays in other offenses at ISU. Heck, the we saw some of the same WR play better when AA was not in this offense. Now you are just making things up. What WR has played better when AA was not in the offense? Name one. It is stuff like this that is ridiculous and made up that people actually say enough times to believe. Who are these less fomidable athletes that have made big plays? No one will answer that.
4. If we had five NFL caliber WR (not even 1st rounders) this offense would be explosive. We don't. You don't need a NFL caliber WR to overcome AA. You need one to compete against BCS teams. Again, name one productive BCS passing spread team that has had average WR's. Just name one.
5. AA has greatly improved his short passing game and it is apparent against equal or lesser competition. NIU, TT, and KSU, he was very accurate. Watch the games again. Like i said, Williams is the only one that has regressed. Johnson and Darks have a history of dropped balls. Williams drops have hit him square in the hands. Not difficult catches at all and ones he made last year.

The AA detractors make a lot of general claims yet don't back them up with anything but generalizations. AA was not good in the short passing game last year. Not good at all. Against Minny, NIU, KSU and TT he has been much, much better. I urge you to rewatch the games and take a good hard look at those games. He hits guys in stride. This is where I draw my conclusions. If he hits guys in stride on the short stuff against teams like Minny, NIU, KSU, and TT and we don't get yards after the catch then something else is wrong. Look at our big plays in those games. They are not yards after the catch plays. They are long completions and the WR is tackled immediately or it is a catch in the endzone. Against NIU, when AA was playing very well and Herman had no need to run just short routes, our longest pass to a WR was 15 yards. 15 yards. That is it.TT- AA was playing well and accurate, yet our average gain per play was 5.8. gain per attempt 5.1 The two longest passes were Money and Franklin. Take those two plays away and we averaged 7.3 per completion. Tells me everything else was short and very few yards after catch.

 

[tazclone]

The only defense I will make of Herman in those Rice vs BCS opponents stats is Rice had nowhere near a running game at all. Unfortunately we are seeing some of the same issues this year with the line failing to sustain blocks. We have the talent in the backfield, just not the consistency up front.

This has been my point all along. The AA detractors claim all you need for this offense to work against BCS opponents is an accurate QB. That is it. Well, that is horse puckey. You need an accurate QB, atleast one WR that can make yards after the catch, you need the threat of a running game, and you need a OL that is consistent. You need the complete package.

I am not saying Herman and CPR can not do it. I think they can and will but it isn't as easy as putting a different/better QB in the system. It just isn't that easy.

 

[d4nim4l]

This has been my point all along. The AA detractors claim all you need for this offense to work against BCS opponents is an accurate QB. That is it. Well, that is horse puckey. You need an accurate QB, atleast one WR that can make yards after the catch, you need the threat of a running game, and you need a OL that is consistent. You need the complete package.

I am not saying Herman and CPR can not do it. I think they can and will but it isn't as easy as putting a different/better QB in the system. It just isn't that easy.

Agreed completely. You need at least the threat of the run game to be successful. Until we rip off another 200 yard rushing game it will not exist. This is the big reason I am a fan of the screens we ran so much last year. They may not get us 15 yards, or even 10, but they keep the defense honest.

As for the point in your other post, look how much Marquis Hamilton, an undrafted free agent who was cut in the preseason, did for this offense last year. Imagine if we got someone legitimate who could go in the first few rounds of a draft.

 

[tazclone]

Name me 1 BCS team that runs the spread and uses a short-yardage back? When Woody is in teams are now covering 3 WR'sand a TE with 5 DB's. That's 5 on 4. Then you put 6 in the box with 5 blocking them and a non-explosive RB and average QB. That equals no offense. Spread teams must have explosion at the skill spots, the line can be average because the ball gets out so quick they don't have to hold their blocks
long. When your livelihood is at stake you take drastic measures. Keeping your speed in the stall is not one them. Thanks for listening to this 10 gallon hat wearing Texan.

It doesn't matter if Woody, ARob,or Johnson are in the game. Teams put 8 in the box most of the time and rely on single coverage. When Woody is in the game, the put 8-9 in the box because it is usually short yardage. 70% of Woody's carries are in short yardage situations.

 

[tazclone]

I'm gonna bow out because obviously you don't have good data. Every Texas recruit had offers from at least 1 other BCS school except for Matt Thomas. And many of their other offers were from D-1 schools that ISU couldn't beat right now like TCU, Tulsa, and Houston. Bennett (Minn), Dika (Kansas, Utah), Barnett (KState) Hollis (Baylor, Iowa), Mattison (OK State), Young (KState).

I would guess that many of the Texas players don't stay because they get tired of watching ISU play kids from Iowa so they can compete the Hawkeyes for fan base. They stay and play in other places outside of Texas. Why not ISU!

They are doing well recruiting these kids. Obviously they can play or the staff wouldn't travel to Texas to recruit them.... also other BCS and powerful mid-major schools wouldnt be recruiting them.

But, I'm gonna let you win this one. Go Cyclones!!

I have fine data. You originally stated that CPR is going in the right direction because he is taking more kids from Texas than previous staffs. That simply isn't true. It is basically the same %. Your saying he is taking more kids from Texas with BCS offers. That was true last year but is not this year and right now the remaining targets are not Texans. They are mostly JUCOs. So if you are looking at the direction he is going, you look at last year to this year. Fewer Texas kids with fewer BCS offers. Only one TX kid has a BCS offer this year. So over a two year average, 26 Texas kids, pretty similar results as compared to previous staffs.

You want to talk enrolled, well it is too early to tell what attrition will be like under CPR. It is understandable that a RB will transfer. We are very deep at that position and have a good one coming in. You keep talking about Hollis. And say Texa kids don't want to sit behind Iowa kids. Well how is CPR going in a different direction? Hollis competed with one player for PT and that was Johnson. Either Johnson or Hollis were going to redshirt in order to split the class. He had a chance to compete, now he redshirts and sees time next year.