Illinois forums

[ScheelhaaseRock]

So tell me please, what type of punishment do you think is appropriate for forcing your hand up a woman's vagina against her will?

Illinois does not have to play this guy, but they've decided winning is more important than doing what is right. As I said earlier, you and your fellow fans must be so proud of your university.

Ya know, I think I covered both of your thoughts above, I have no problem with the actions the school took to suspend him and argue against the TRO in court, if that's what you're asking.

I think you are eager to get into an argument about this, though, and I would offer that you would have no problem whatsoever finding an Illinois fan willing to engage in the type of argument you want online, Twitter is probably a good place to start, good luck.

 

[Pharmacy99]

I just hope Illinois isnt added to the list of Big10 teams eliminating us from the tournament. Michigan State, Ohio State(twice) Purdue

Wins: Wisconsin, Minnesota, michigan

This is since I’ve been a fan.

Ohio State eliminated us 3 times

 

[ribsnwhiskey]

So tell me please, what type of punishment do you think is appropriate for forcing your hand up a woman's vagina against her will?

Illinois does not have to play this guy, but they've decided winning is more important than doing what is right. As I said earlier, you and your fellow fans must be so proud of your university.

Is he guilty?

 

[Pope]

Ya know, I think I covered both of your thoughts above, I have no problem with the actions the school took to suspend him and argue against the TRO in court, if that's what you're asking.

I think you are eager to get into an argument about this, though, and I would offer that you would have no problem whatsoever finding an Illinois fan willing to engage in the type of argument you want online, Twitter is probably a good place to start, good luck.

Not trying to get into an argument at all. I'm asking you a sincere question in response to the following statement you made:

"I believe our judicial system metes out too much punishment in general, so a 10 year mandatory minimum for a rape charge over a 30-second event seems wrong, but if he did what was alleged a serious misdemeanor and some amount of jail time seems very appropriate and necessary."

Since you've stated that a minimum 10 year sentence seems wrong for a "30 second" sexual assault, what type of sentence do you think is appropriate?

 

[ScheelhaaseRock]

Not trying to get into an argument at all. I'm asking you a sincere question in response to the following statement you made:

"I believe our judicial system metes out too much punishment in general, so a 10 year mandatory minimum for a rape charge over a 30-second event seems wrong, but if he did what was alleged a serious misdemeanor and some amount of jail time seems very appropriate and necessary."

Since you've stated that a minimum 10 year sentence seems wrong for a "30 second" sexual assault, what type of sentence do you think is appropriate?

I literally provided you with a response

 

[MeowingCows]

Easy comment to make, not sure that would hold up in court though.

Long story short, Shannon was accused of fingering a girl in a bar on KU's campus after they shellacked Illinois in a football game. (One of two times I watched KU beat the team I was rooting for in-person, sorry about that guys). The alleged incident happened over the course of a minute or so at a crowded campus bar. Because digital penetration was alleged, he was charged with rape, as well as sexual battery. Any crap you've read online about the alleged incident being not true or whatever evidence might exist is likely bunk, at this point very little public information has been released other than the charging document and some poorly filled out police reports.

Once he was formally charged by the state of Kansas, UIUC initiated their conduct policy (which exists primarily to protect the school) where the AD suspended TSJ from all team activities until the matter was decided, and an independent faculty panel that is supposed to review those decisions upheld the determination.

TSJ sued, and the end result was the Federal judge gave TSJ an injunction preventing the school from implementing its policy. Largely it was based on:

1. TSJ's attorneys argued that he is in an academic/job training program (for which he received considerable compensation through NIL), and he enjoys a presumption of innocence and due process before being denied the ability to participate.
2. The school's athlete conduct policy did not give him that due process, he was suspended based on the nature of the charges, and had no hearing on the merits of the case.

The school could investigate through the student discipline process, and a finding in that process could lead to TSJ being suspended, but that is a long timeline and the school has limited access to information given out of state charges... we're still waiting for a preliminary hearing and discovery in the court case, his attorneys got that delayed until May.

So... here we are. He has injunction saying the school can't take action against him until he's gone through due process, he may be innocent, he may not be. My spidey sense, which means nothing, tells me that I assume he did something very untoward in that Lawrence bar. I believe our judicial system metes out too much punishment in general, so a 10 year mandatory minimum for a rape charge over a 30-second event seems wrong, but if he did what was alleged a serious misdemeanor and some amount of jail time seems very appropriate and necessary. If guilty of that, then that's a charge that historically has led to players being ejected from the school. His college career is over in 4-14 days no matter what.

The situation sucks, I hope justice, whatever the hell it is in this situation, is done.

I think this *should* be a driver to rethink whether players are employees vs. student-athletes, but it probably won't be.

I find it interesting to set the precedent that a college athlete can't be suspended from sports for being charged with a crime nowadays. The rest of us peons wouldn't get that kind of special treatment for the same action.

 

[ScheelhaaseRock]

I find it interesting to set the precedent that a college athlete can't be suspended from sports for being charged with a crime nowadays. The rest of us peons wouldn't get that kind of special treatment for the same action.

I was pretty shocked by the ruling, and I think it's a pretty frightening precedent as it didn't take into account the nature of the alleged crime (which is pretty darn bad) and the logic could be extended to a wide variety of other alleged acts.

There's a little bit of a unique circumstance here because I think the court ruling could have been different if the incident happened on campus or tied to TSJ being on University business.

 

[Fishhead]

Ohio State eliminated us 3 times

I saw that. They did the year before Orr’s sweet 16 run. I don’t think I moved to iowa that year

 

[RezClone]

It seems like they don't know much about us (I didn't see a single post that even mentioned one of our players by name). There just high on their own play right now, and rightfully so.

Hopefully their players are as overconfident as their fans, and our guys take the time this week to prepare.

IMO the problem with opposing fans and even WAY too much of the media is that when people hear "defense," the image of Virginia and SDSU come to mind.

It's very easy for outsiders to assume we are in the mold of those classic slow-grind super disciplined teams who play conservatively and are always in the right place. In others' minds, all their team has to do is be patient, make a few plays, win some one-one-ones, and hit some contested shots and BOOM! Advantage offense.

Quite frankly, not only is it getting old at this point, it's just lazy and disrespectful, even if unintentional. Sure, it is what it is and we're Iowa State so yeah, it's not unexpected whatsoever.

Our defense is dynamic, aggressive, and simply a vulgar display of high-octane game changing athleticism. People just don't feel comfortable associating those words with defense in general, or Iowa State athletics, respectively. Let alone the Iowa State defense in particular.

 

[danvillecyclone]

Iowa State could be Judge.

Iowa State could be the Jury.

Ending his career.

 

[Cyowa 14]

IMO the problem with opposing fans and even WAY too much of the media is that when people hear "defense," the image of Virginia and SDSU come to mind.

It's very easy for outsiders to assume we are in the mold of those classic slow-grind super disciplined teams who play conservatively and are always in the right place. In others' minds, all their team has to do is be patient, make a few plays, win some one-one-ones, and hit some contested shots and BOOM! Advantage offense.

Quite frankly, not only is it getting old at this point, it's just lazy and disrespectful, even if unintentional. Sure, it is what it is and we're Iowa State so yeah, it's not unexpected whatsoever.

Our defense is dynamic, aggressive, and simply a vulgar display of high-octane game changing athleticism. People just don't feel comfortable associating those words with defense in general, or Iowa State athletics, respectively. Let alone the Iowa State defense in particular.

This precisely, the way the media is portraying this game as Illinois being this super athletic monster, which they are, and ISU being this unathletic, disciplined, grinding team that can't match them at all is dumbfounding but expected I guess. All I'll say is Keshon Gilbert is 6'4, Tamin isn't tall but go ahead and overlook him, Hason ward is the most athletic big on either team and my wild card for this game is Watson, he is going to check in and Illinois is going to say who the hell is this guy. I think we are going say after the game is over that it was Watson's best game as a cyclone

 

[Cyhig]

Easy comment to make, not sure that would hold up in court though.

Long story short, Shannon was accused of fingering a girl in a bar on KU's campus after they shellacked Illinois in a football game. (One of two times I watched KU beat the team I was rooting for in-person, sorry about that guys). The alleged incident happened over the course of a minute or so at a crowded campus bar. Because digital penetration was alleged, he was charged with rape, as well as sexual battery. Any crap you've read online about the alleged incident being not true or whatever evidence might exist is likely bunk, at this point very little public information has been released other than the charging document and some poorly filled out police reports.

Once he was formally charged by the state of Kansas, UIUC initiated their conduct policy (which exists primarily to protect the school) where the AD suspended TSJ from all team activities until the matter was decided, and an independent faculty panel that is supposed to review those decisions upheld the determination.

TSJ sued, and the end result was the Federal judge gave TSJ an injunction preventing the school from implementing its policy. Largely it was based on:

1. TSJ's attorneys argued that he is in an academic/job training program (for which he received considerable compensation through NIL), and he enjoys a presumption of innocence and due process before being denied the ability to participate.
2. The school's athlete conduct policy did not give him that due process, he was suspended based on the nature of the charges, and had no hearing on the merits of the case.

The school could investigate through the student discipline process, and a finding in that process could lead to TSJ being suspended, but that is a long timeline and the school has limited access to information given out of state charges... we're still waiting for a preliminary hearing and discovery in the court case, his attorneys got that delayed until May.

So... here we are. He has injunction saying the school can't take action against him until he's gone through due process, he may be innocent, he may not be. My spidey sense, which means nothing, tells me that I assume he did something very untoward in that Lawrence bar. I believe our judicial system metes out too much punishment in general, so a 10 year mandatory minimum for a rape charge over a 30-second event seems wrong, but if he did what was alleged a serious misdemeanor and some amount of jail time seems very appropriate and necessary. If guilty of that, then that's a charge that historically has led to players being ejected from the school. His college career is over in 4-14 days no matter what.

The situation sucks, I hope justice, whatever the hell it is in this situation, is done.

I think this *should* be a driver to rethink whether players are employees vs. student-athletes, but it probably won't be.

All of that comes off as the priorities are on winning basketball games instead of the pursuit of justice.

 

[carvers4math]

Not trying to get into an argument at all. I'm asking you a sincere question in response to the following statement you made:

"I believe our judicial system metes out too much punishment in general, so a 10 year mandatory minimum for a rape charge over a 30-second event seems wrong, but if he did what was alleged a serious misdemeanor and some amount of jail time seems very appropriate and necessary."

Since you've stated that a minimum 10 year sentence seems wrong for a "30 second" sexual assault, what type of sentence do you think is appropriate?

Minimizing the alleged behavior is one the most vile things I have ever read on this site. Wonder why he doesn’t see it as a gross violation?

I hope Kansas includes this offense for the sex offender registry and in addition to the sentence, has a 10 year special sentence as in Iowa.

 

[nrg4isu]

Ya know, I think I covered both of your thoughts above, I have no problem with the actions the school took to suspend him and argue against the TRO in court, if that's what you're asking.

I think you are eager to get into an argument about this, though, and I would offer that you would have no problem whatsoever finding an Illinois fan willing to engage in the type of argument you want online, Twitter is probably a good place to start, good luck.

So to be explicitly clear. When you say "I think I covered your thoughts above" you mean

1) his actions do not rise to the legal definition of rape and/or do not warrant the legal minimum 10 year sentence for a rape charge

And

2) you're content with the school not going any further to keep him off of the basketball court

All the while assuming he committed at a minimum a crime if not the alleged crime.

Insinuation, especially on a message board, is a recipe for misunderstanding.

 

[CycloneSpinning]

Having lived in Chicago for 14 years...I genuinely 100% think Iowa State has more passionate fans in Chicago than Illinois does.

I met ONE Illinois fan in 14 years living in neighborhoods near downtown. One. (and he was a relative of my wife, not even a random person I met) Pretty much every other regional Big Ten team has a ton more fans in Chicago than IL/NW have. Even when they made their big run in I think 2006 practically nobody in Chicago cares. Actual Chicagoans who are born there are always obsessed with a terrible Bears team and ignore Illinois.

I highly doubt they have more fans that care enough to fly to Boston than ISU. Both will be outnumbered greatly by UConn but no way they have any more fans there than ISU.

This is 100% correct. They do not care about college sports…at all.

 

[CySmurf]

I honestly dont think I’ve ever gone to a different team’s message board and thought it was better than ours.

Same here.

 

[Pope]

I literally provided you with a response

No, you literally did not answer my question.

But that's okay. It was pretty much rhetorical, anyway. Your "30 second event" description of the Illinois player's sexual assault told me all I needed to know.

 

[cayin]

I just hope Illinois isnt added to the list of Big10 teams eliminating us from the tournament. Michigan State, Ohio State(twice) Purdue

Wins: Wisconsin, Minnesota, michigan

This is since I’ve been a fan.

we are 3 and 5. Not good against the Big 10. Although it can be argued that Michigan State and Ohio State 2013 we total screw jobs by the officials. Purdue and Ohio State 2019 were just absolute incompetence by CSP.

 

[werdnamanhill]

we are 3 and 5. Not good against the Big 10. Although it can be argued that Michigan State and Ohio State 2013 we total screw jobs by the officials. Purdue and Ohio State 2019 were just absolute incompetence by CSP.

That purdue game was so rediculous. Like watching a train crash at 0.5 frames per second

 

[rosshm16]

Is it normal for NCAA athletes charged with crimes to still be playing while they await a court date months later? I’ve been following college sports for ~25 years as an adult and don’t remember ever seeing that before.