Hypothetical Tim Floyd question

[ISUChippewa]

So I'm watching the end of the George Mason-Kansas State basketball game tonight, and they are talking about USC playing later on tonight on ESPN2 and O.J. Mayo, and it got me to thinking a "what-if" question; Where would ISU basketball be right now if Tim Floyd had not been so ambitious to take the Bulls job and was still our coach, or at least had stuck around for a few more years?

I asked this out loud to my dad, and his response was "Probably pretty close to Kansas." I mostly agree with him. I do think that Tim Floyd was our most complete coach we've ever had in terms of getting it done recruiting-wise and X's and O's and not having the baggage that led to LE's downfall.

I know it's just idle, "what-if" type of thinking, but what do you all think about where ISU basketball would be right now if we still had TF?

 

[cyclonekj]

If he was still here, it would mean we hadn't done very well in the past several years. Tim Floyd is and was a climber who used the ISU job to further his career. We benefited and so did he. But if he hadn't left for the Bulls, it would have been somewhere else. Personally, I'm glad it proved to be a stepping stone to the NBA.

 

[Cyfan322]

I imagine that your assessment would not be far off. We would have had Fizer, Hinrich, and Collison all on one team for crying out loud.

 

[cmoore_23]

So I'm watching the end of the George Mason-Kansas State basketball game tonight, and they are talking about USC playing later on tonight on ESPN2 and O.J. Mayo, and it got me to thinking a "what-if" question; Where would ISU basketball be right now if Tim Floyd had not been so ambitious to take the Bulls job and was still our coach, or at least had stuck around for a few more years?

I asked this out loud to my dad, and his response was "Probably pretty close to Kansas." I mostly agree with him. I do think that Tim Floyd was our most complete coach we've ever had in terms of getting it done recruiting-wise and X's and O's and not having the baggage that led to LE's downfall.

I know it's just idle, "what-if" type of thinking, but what do you all think about where ISU basketball would be right now if we still had TF?

I want to think this but at the same time.. how hard can it be to recruit guys to USC... i liked TF as much as any1 else.. i wish he would have stayed.. so with that said if you go with the what if factor.. would he have been as good at recruiting here as he is at USC w/o the NBA expierence and with the location? we will never know


But my opinion on the actuall topic would be i think we would be a top 30 team year in and out

 

[Jer]

I think we'd probably be up at a pretty consistent level competing for the Big XII every two or three years. I don't think we'd have won any national championships but we'd be a Top 25 team just about every year.

I think Floyd is a terrific coach but he had a tendency to get rid of players after a year just because he found somebody he liked better. That might not sound bad to some people but the NCAA sure wouldn't have put up with it.

 

[Jer]

That was also a great point - Floyd never planned on staying here more than a couple years, regardless of his success. He used us as a stepping stone because ego is a huge part of who he is.

 

[kentkel]

First of all, I think the TF era would not have lasted a whole lot longer at ISU even had he not left for 'da Bulls. I believe he was cordial enough to the ISU fan base, but I always felt that we were just a stepping stone to somewhere "better." Even with his promise to Marcus that he'd be at ISU for his career, I believe that if USC had come calling back then, TF would have taken the job - or at least SERIOUSLY considered it.

Now, don't get me wrong, I agree whole-heartedly about Floyd being a complete coach. I rarely missed a TF post game interview or TF show with Pete Taylor! He was/is an incredible basketball mind, and I loved to listen as he analyzed each of the details of the game. I also loved how he really got our team to COMPETE on the road!!

Now, to address your question more directly, I believe that had he stayed, we would be like aTm was under Gillespie. I truly believe that we would be mentioned in the same breath as KU and Texas each year. NCAA bids would NOT be a matter of "I hope we can get there" or "will we be chosen" but, rather, "will we get a number one, two or three seed."

But, the fact that TF didn't stay shows that he isn't really the complete coach. IMHO, the complete coach is one who:
- possesses incredible X&O knowledge
- recruits & develops great talent & character
- surrounds himself with great assistants
- has a passion for ISU basketball & desires to take it to the highest level of excellence!!

In regards to the above, Floyd's name could get high talent to notice ISU, at least much more easily than McD. However, the passion for ISU is something that I believe Floyd lacked big time!

Now consider this scenario: McD takes us to the NC in 2011 and wins the whole thing. Meanwhile, Coach K leaves Duke & Duke pursues McD & offers him a job. In this case, I wouldn't blame McD for considering the offer. However, my true definition of a complete coach is one that thinks "this is the greatest job in the world" and "I want to retire knowing that I not only established ISU as a basketball power, but THE basketball power." Sorry for ramblin' on, but we're on the "what if" topic so I thought I'd elaborate on my dream for Cyclone Basketball.

 

[CrossCyed]

First of all, I think the TF era would not have lasted a whole lot longer at ISU even had he not left for 'da Bulls. I believe he was cordial enough to the ISU fan base, but I always felt that we were just a stepping stone to somewhere "better." Even with his promise to Marcus that he'd be at ISU for his career, I believe that if USC had come calling back then, TF would have taken the job - or at least SERIOUSLY considered it.

Now, don't get me wrong, I agree whole-heartedly about Floyd being a complete coach. I rarely missed a TF post game interview or TF show with Pete Taylor! He was/is an incredible basketball mind, and I loved to listen as he analyzed each of the details of the game. I also loved how he really got our team to COMPETE on the road!!

Now, to address your question more directly, I believe that had he stayed, we would be like aTm was under Gillespie. I truly believe that we would be mentioned in the same breath as KU and Texas each year. NCAA bids would NOT be a matter of "I hope we can get there" or "will we be chosen" but, rather, "will we get a number one, two or three seed."

But, the fact that TF didn't stay shows that he isn't really the complete coach. IMHO, the complete coach is one who:
- possesses incredible X&O knowledge
- recruits & develops great talent & character
- surrounds himself with great assistants
- has a passion for ISU basketball & desires to take it to the highest level of excellence!!

In regards to the above, Floyd's name could get high talent to notice ISU, at least much more easily than McD. However, the passion for ISU is something that I believe Floyd lacked big time!

Now consider this scenario: McD takes us to the NC in 2011 and wins the whole thing. Meanwhile, Coach K leaves Duke & Duke pursues McD & offers him a job. In this case, I wouldn't blame McD for considering the offer. However, my true definition of a complete coach is one that thinks "this is the greatest job in the world" and "I want to retire knowing that I not only established ISU as a basketball power, but THE basketball power." Sorry for ramblin' on, but we're on the "what if" topic so I thought I'd elaborate on my dream for Cyclone Basketball.

I really doubt that anyone who wasn't born a Cyclone fan wouldn't leave for greener pastures if the money/prestige was right, including McD.

 

[kentkel]

I really doubt that anyone who wasn't born a Cyclone fan wouldn't leave for greener pastures if the money/prestige was right, including McD.

True. But I remember Eustachy saying that he would love to stay here as long as he could. If things had been different with his personal issues, I believe that he could have been that type of ISU career coach that took ISU basketball to a level even beyond JO & TF.

I know that I like my kool-aid cardinal & gold, but a coach who wants to establish himself as a truly great coach - why not take a program that has great fans & an awesome environment (Hilton Magic), and commit to taking the program as far as you can, with the goal of establishing a "dynasty." Then, when you retire, you will be measured as ONE of the all-time greats!! OR, you could be the next Tubby Smith & use a major college (Georgia) as a stepping stone to the ultimate in prestige and $ (Kentucky) and have a rabid fan base calling for your head & forcing you out because you don't measure up to Rupp or Pitino.

I think I'm going to have to log out soon - I'm about ready to pass out from too much of that kool-aid!:smile:

 

[CrossCyed]

True. But I remember Eustachy saying that he would love to stay here as long as he could. If things had been different with his personal issues, I believe that he could have been that type of ISU career coach that took ISU basketball to a level even beyond JO & TF.

I know that I like my kool-aid cardinal & gold, but a coach who wants to establish himself as a truly great coach - why not take a program that has great fans & an awesome environment (Hilton Magic), and commit to taking the program as far as you can, with the goal of establishing a "dynasty." Then, when you retire, you will be measured as ONE of the all-time greats!! OR, you could be the next Tubby Smith & use a major college (Georgia) as a stepping stone to the ultimate in prestige and $ (Kentucky) and have a rabid fan base calling for your head & forcing you out because you don't measure up to Rupp or Pitino.

I think I'm going to have to log out soon - I'm about ready to pass out from too much of that kool-aid!:smile:

I had not heard that.

I assure you, when I'm coaching at Iowa State, coming off my second Final Four, I'll stay here, and even make sure my salary fits into the AD's budget. :wink:

 

[Cyfan322]

But, the fact that TF didn't stay shows that he isn't really the complete coach. IMHO, the complete coach is one who:
- possesses incredible X&O knowledge
- recruits & develops great talent & character
- surrounds himself with great assistants
- has a passion for ISU basketball & desires to take it to the highest level of excellence!!

Would you like to tell us how many coaches that you consider complete coaches? I can hardly think of any that meet all four of your requirements.

 

[Cyclonepride]

Would you like to tell us how many coaches that you consider complete coaches? I can hardly think of any that meet all four of your requirements.

I can name one.......Greg McDermott.

 

[Cybone]

If Floyd had stayed? While it would be impossible to tell exactly where we would be I can give you an idea....

Kirk Hinrich and Nick Collison would have come to ISU.

Here is your starting set:
PG - Tinsley
SG - Horton
SG - Hinrich
PF - Fizer
PF/C - Collison

From that team there, we would probably would make another BIG run in the NCAA, at least Elite 8, probably Final 4. After that one run, Floyd would leave for a more lucrative job, but the profile of the program would have been greatly improved and bigger recruits would have taken notice.

Now all we need is a Delorean with a Flux-Capaciter, enough plutonium to get the 1.21 jigawatts to power it and Dr. Emmet Brown.

 

[isucyfan]

If Floyd had stayed? While it would be impossible to tell exactly where we would be I can give you an idea....

Kirk Hinrich and Nick Collison would have come to ISU.

Here is your starting set:
PG - Tinsley
SG - Horton
SG - Hinrich
PF - Fizer
PF/C - Collison

From that team there, we would probably would make another BIG run in the NCAA, at least Elite 8, probably Final 4. After that one run, Floyd would leave for a more lucrative job, but the profile of the program would have been greatly improved and bigger recruits would have taken notice.

Now all we need is a Delorean with a Flux-Capaciter, enough plutonium to get the 1.21 jigawatts to power it and Dr. Emmet Brown.

If Hinrich came to ISU, we would have never gotten Tinsley. He was a LE recruit, and wouldn't have wanted to play backup to Hinrich.

 

[CYdTracked]

This is a tough question. Wasn't Floyd 12-18 his last season here and if I remember that team was pretty bad on talent with guys like Lee Love and some other no-name guards I can't even remember the names of. He did bring in a huge piece in Fizer but Larry also added Nurse, Tinsley, and Horton to what Floyd left him and I don't see us going to the Elite 8 let alone possibly the NCAA tourney without those guys.

This is a big "what if." Like everyone has said, Floyd was using ISU as a stepping stone so he would have probably left at some point anyways. He also had some of his best years using juco rentals. Look at that team that won the last Big 8 tourney. Cato, Willoughby, Pratt, Bankhead were all 2 year rentals. I'm not downplaying what Floyd did here, he had some nice success but the way he was doing it makes me wonder if he could have kept it up over the long term.

 

[CYdTracked]

Let's not assume Collison would have committed to ISU. If I remember correctly he really wasn't that interested in ISU or Iowa at the time regardless of the coach. Hinrich obviously was committed to Floyd not ISU.

 

[bos]

From that team there, we would probably would make another BIG run in the NCAA, at least Elite 8, probably Final 4. After that one run, Floyd would leave for a more lucrative job, but the profile of the program would have been greatly improved and bigger recruits would have taken notice.
.

Exactly, he would have left anyway. And the program would have had to be rebuilt again and who knows what would have happened the talent on the current roster. And with a shake up of the coaching change future recruits probably would have committed elsewhere.

 

[Cutlass]

I'm not so sure he wouldn't have been around long term, if he hadn't been offered the Bulls job. We have to remember he was a Southern boy from Mississippi. He was offered the Tennessee job and (and this is big) the LSU job and turned them both down. When he turned down LSU I, personally, became convinced that he wouldn't leave ISU for another college job.

TF had also been quoted in personal conversions as saying that a National Championship could be won at ISU. And TF's last year at ISU wouldn't have been nearly so bad if Gerrod Henderson and CJ Brutton were the starting guards, instead of Lee Love and Parris Corner.

 

[CrossCyed]

I can name one.......Greg McDermott.

What makes you say that? Do you honestly think he wouldn't leave for a bigger school for more money when he left his alma mater for that reason? Not a dig at Greg, but he kind of left UNI with a bad taste in some UNI fans' mouths.

 

[Clone_12]

A few things...Tinsley committed here after watching us get pounded by Missouri, and knowing he would immediately be the starting point guard was one of the biggest reasons we landed him. We wouldn't have landed him with Hinrich at the point, and he may have not even considered us. Collison never seriously considered ISU, despite us being on his short list. He would've given Iowa a serious look but they didn't know who their coach was going to be at the time...and one thing that makes me think GMac won't leave here is that he wanted a shot at coaching at the Big 10 or Big 12 level, and to stay close to home...which left ISU and Iowa as his two main possible destinations. I really believe Greg wants to stay instate...

To the topic at hand...in only a few years at ISU, Floyd landed committments from Kelvin Cato, Dedric Willoughby, Marcus Fizer, Gerrod Henderson, C.J Bruhton, and Kirk Hinrich. ISU would've consistantly been a winner had Tim wanted ISU to be his last coaching stop. Larry did want to stay at ISU, and referred to Iowa State as his "Kentucky" or "Duke"...he repeatedly said this would be his last job if it was left up to him, but with the player turnover it was tough to expect consistency under Larry...when he did get the talent, they would win, but it would always be a matter of who would stay and who would go. I would've loved to watch Stinson develope under Larry, and Curtis was the definition of a Larry Eustachy player...I really enjoyed watching ISU basketball under Floyd and Eustachy, but all things being said, I am very happy Greg McDermott is now our coach.