Hogue's "Intentional" foul

[ArathornClone]

Intentional =/= flagrant. Am I wrong? I know they changed the rules somewhat for flagrants this year so I will gladly admit if I'm way off base here. I admitted earlier that the call was borderline. It probably doesn't get called intentional by most refs. All I'm saying is that my first reaction to the play was that Hogue intentionally grabbed Higgins with his left hand because he knew he was beat. I can understand why it was called the way it was even if most refs would have called that just a run-of-the-mill foul.

I already answered this with excerpt from NCAA website. There is no intentional foul nomenclature as there was previously.

An example of a Flagrant 1 foul would be when a player swings an elbow and makes illegal, non-excessive contact with an opponent above the shoulders. The team whose player was struck would receive two free throws and possession of the ball. Previously, this type of foul was called an intentional foul. The committee wanted to move away from the word “intentional,â€￾ because a player’s intent was never the point to the rule.

 

[HFCS]

Both ref in each conference. Well until Ed retired.

Higgins has to have reffed more ISU games the past 10-15 years though. I grew up an Iowa fan and suddenly started noticing Higgins calling crap calls against ISU my freshman year in the student section, no idea who he was before then but I grew up watching Hightower. I remember the minute I became an ISU student I kept thinking, this young-looking-but-still-has-a-combover ref is screwing us!

 

[Skyh13]

***** and moan, ***** and moan. It was obviously intentional on my tv. But go ahead and ***** and moan

Your TV is broken.

 

[KMAC_ATTACK]

Actually this is not true....a play on the ball has nothing to do with Intentional fouls. I agree with you that it was not an intentional foul but for different reason. He made the play on the ball and the foul was not excessive or severe. The resulting continuation, but, that could be called on almost every time Kane goes to the rim and ends up on the floor - see definition:

In basketball, a flagrant foul is a serious personal foul. A foul is considered flagrant when it involves excessive or violent contact which could injure the fouled player. It is distinct from an intentional foul, which is a tactic permitted within the game as long as the foul is not considered flagrant.

I STAND CORRECTED....sorry....

Here's the rule 4 of an Intentional foul.....

A foul shall be ruled intentional when a player, while playing the ball, causes excessive contact.

Based on this rule, i now believe it was a correct call.

 

[mitten1975]

I have no problem with the call. Hogue grabbed with his left hand and went for the ball with his right. Flame away.

It was the kind of call you should get at home, but we never do. People would have been angry, if KU hadn't got that call. I wouldn't have wanted that call if it would have been turned around on them, but I would take it in order to win the game. Far worse was the one on Ejim.

 

[jkclone]

I STAND CORRECTED....sorry....

Here's the rule 4 of an Intentional foul.....

A foul shall be ruled intentional when a player, while playing the ball, causes excessive contact.

Based on this rule, i now believe it was a correct call.

Even with the intentional foul rule (which no longer stands) that wasn't an intentional foul.

 

[3TrueFans]

The play is part of the highlight package on the ESPN recap of the game. I could see the call going either way possibly. It was certainly a hard foul, you could maybe make the argument that Hogue was going for the ball, but he did it by grabbing onto Wiggins' left shoulder and pulling him so he could bring his right arm around and attempt to hit the ball.

 

[BloodyBuddy]

I STAND CORRECTED....sorry....

Here's the rule 4 of an Intentional foul.....

A foul shall be ruled intentional when a player, while playing the ball, causes contact against KU.

Based on this rule, i now believe it was a correct call.

FIFY

 

[herbicide]

borderline intentional. still ruined a good close game that was fun to watch up until that point

Nails it on the head. The call could of gone either way. Seen thousands of more intentional fouls not get called that way. Seen other ones get called intentional for less. Typically for them to be intentional there has to be NO play on the ball, and it has to be deadly obvious that no play was made on the ball.

 

[ExCyment]

Hogue grabbed him by he face IN the air on a shot......are those of you calling it a crap call not seeing that or choosing to ignore it? Because that's an intentional foul every day.

No its not even if true, as long as a genuine play is made on the ball it is not intentional, and if you call that grabbing the face a lot of those calls should be made.

 

[ThatllDoCy]

I thought it was a hard foul, but nothing crazy.

 

[ExCyment]

Personally I have no problem with the intentional foul. Hogue was beat, knew it, and had a hard foul. Rolls reversed we'd want an intentional. I thought the refs actually had a really good game. I normally hate Higgins and crew, but they did a good job tonight. The turning point was when we turned it over TWICE on one end of the floor. That was the ball game. We had a chance to tie it and instead we give up that garbage. We literally "threw" the game away with that inbounds pass.

On that inbounds pass the defender deflected the ball in Kane's hands out of bounds. I'm pretty sure the defenders are not allowed to cross the plane of the out of bounds line on an inbounds play. Any hoby officials know if that is the rule and what should be called if a defender touches the ball before it is in play.

 

[Cyclonesince78]

Dustin Hogue ‏@DustinHogue1 29m I apologize for the flagrant and not cutting out to allow tip in can't be making costly mistakes but will do better next game #cyclONEnation

 

[bozclone]

I didn't like the intentional foul call, but overall I was surprised at how fairly the game was called. The refs must be negotiating a pay raise from Bill.

 

[wonkadog]

We have been completely screwed by refs in basketball and football, this wasnt even close to what I have seen in the past. Even at first glance the commentator said it was intentional.

1) What do the "commentators" have to do with anything?

2) Please stop using "we" when talking about ISU if that's really you're opinion about this bs call.

Thank you.

 

[Madclone1]

1) What do the "commentators" have to do with anything?

2) Please stop using "we" when talking about ISU if that's really you're opinion about this bs call.

Thank you.

Don't start booing ... Like KU fans. Take a chill pill ... It won't make any difference a 1,000 years from now!

 

[Bigman38]

Dustin Hogue ‏@DustinHogue1 29m I apologize for the flagrant and not cutting out to allow tip in can't be making costly mistakes but will do better next game #cyclONEnation

Hopefully he doesn't take last night too hard. To me he just looked a little off most of the night, not sure what was going on.

 

[2forISU]

Good call ref

 

[CyCy]

The call only affected the outcome of the game because Kansas scored on the possession after the free throws. They only scored then because we failed to block out on the missed shot and as a result gave them an easy lay in. Had we blocked out on that FG shot and got the rebound, the call would have had no affect at all on the outcome other than running a few more seconds off the clock for the play.

 

[isuforlife]

Bill Self is a complete **** head