Herman

[jbhtexas]

I personally love where the offense is at right now.

I'm not there to the "love" stage yet. As I posted above, scoring, which is what really matters, dropped from 2008. ISU only scored 14 against MN in the bowl game.

Again, I hope it was just a transition year with some key injuries, and the points scored will soar next year. It will be very difficult for ISU to attain a bowl next year if they don't put more points on the scoreboard.

 

[CycloneErik]

I think it's pretty clear that Austen gets it. He was completing 70% of his passes at the end of the season. He's just somewhat prone to dumb mistakes. I don't think it's a lack of understanding of the offense, as much as it is that he feels he has to create plays sometimes, and doesn't wait for things to develop/take what is given. His grasp of the offense is just, but he has to correct the bad mistakes this offseason.

As long as we keep Tyler Sash from getting open this year, we should be in good shape for that one game.

 

[Bobber]

I really don't think there are any Herman haters, but I think there are a few that expected more then we got, in other words they were disappointed, that doesn't mean they hate him.

This.

I was just hoping for more improvement. Wally seemed to improve the defense a lot more than Herman did on offense.

However, I was one of the ones at the begining of the season who said that I thought the offense had a lot steeper hill to climb than the defense because the system was so much different and they had a lot more to learn. Throw in the fact that our quarterback and runnning back was hurt much of the year and it's not surprising to me that they didn't put up better stats.

 

[2020cy]

"Paging Mr. Herman! Mr. Herman, you have a telephone call at the front desk!"

:biglaugh:

I was thinking the same thing . Wasn't it paging P. W. Herman?

 

[jaretac]

You forgot the stat that matters the most...scoreboard. Among the Big 12 teams, for all games, ISU was 12th in scoring offense, and for conference games, ISU was 10th (0.1 points out of 11th) in scoring offense. As far as total offensive yards go, ISU was 8th both overall and in conference. For all games, ISU lost 5 points from 2008, and for conference, ISU lost 3 points. Scoring went down, and that is a concern.

I think some of the criticism of Herman came in play calling, like the Iowa game where he didn't seem to call running plays despite the run being apparently open, while continuing to call pass players into heavy coverage.

Hopefully it was a learning year for both him and AA, and there will be more points next year.

We had almost 200 rushing yards for the Iowa game. Unless you wanted us to completely abandoned the run all together, this is a void argument. Also, like it or not, AA picks helped open up the run game because it moved the safety back. If we had gone pure run we would have still done nothing. Sure there was a play call here and there, but I think Herman is the best play caller I've seen at ISU for as long as I've been following ISU football. He had the tendency of calling the right play at the perfect time- and then we didn't execute.

 

[jbhtexas]

We had almost 200 rushing yards for the Iowa game. Unless you wanted us to completely abandoned the run all together, this is a void argument. Also, like it or not, AA picks helped open up the run game because it moved the safety back. If we had gone pure run we would have still done nothing. Sure there was a play call here and there, but I think Herman is the best play caller I've seen at ISU for as long as I've been following ISU football. He had the tendency of calling the right play at the perfect time- and then we didn't execute.

Maybe ISU could have gotten 300 yards rushing by taking what was being given, and better yet, gotten some more points. Yards gained aren't really this issue. The goal is to score points, and you can't do that when you are giving the ball to the other team by throwing INTs, whether by bad throws, or by bad play call.

The Iowa game was a poorly called game, IMO, from the offensive side. It doesn't mean that Herman is a bad play caller overall.

Just curious, when you initially posted your stats, why didn't you post scoring stats? Scoring is the one that ultimately determines who wins or loses, so it seems rather odd to leave out an important offensive stat like that.

 

[ajk4st8]

I agree with how well Herman did at ISU.

Im a bit shocked to hear how people were down on Herman. Ive never heard anyone say anything bad about him.

 

[Wesley]

I've heard many people say they were disappointed in what Herman did last year. I haven't really looked at it until today and here is what I found out.









________2008________2009
rushing-----1661---------2340
passing-----2981---------2401
total-------4642---------4741
3rd %------38%---------41%
4th %------50%---------58%
red zone----71%---------84%
1st downs---241---------252

Except for passing yards, ISU improved in every area despite Big 12 defenses being dramatically improved over last season (Average total defense for the Big 12: 2008-402.14 ypg, 2009-340.44 ypg) and being year one into implementing a completely different system from what ISU has had in the past. I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do next year.

Put the points up, and then let's talk.

 

[Wesley]

I'm not there to the "love" stage yet. As I posted above, scoring, which is what really matters, dropped from 2008. ISU only scored 14 against MN in the bowl game.

Again, I hope it was just a transition year with some key injuries, and the points scored will soar next year. It will be very difficult for ISU to attain a bowl next year if they don't put more points on the scoreboard.

This was also said about our bball team this year. It was defections, injuries, new system, tough luck.

The jury is out until we prove we can score. Outside of 2003, we have been pretty much a 14-21 point team in most games.

 

[jaretac]

Maybe ISU could have gotten 300 yards rushing by taking what was being given, and better yet, gotten some more points. Yards gained aren't really this issue. The goal is to score points, and you can't do that when you are giving the ball to the other team by throwing INTs, whether by bad throws, or by bad play call.

The Iowa game was a poorly called game, IMO, from the offensive side. It doesn't mean that Herman is a bad play caller overall.

Just curious, when you initially posted your stats, why didn't you post scoring stats? Scoring is the one that ultimately determines who wins or loses, so it seems rather odd to leave out an important offensive stat like that.

I didn't look at it. My point is that if we hadn't thrown the ball as much as we did, how do we know we would have got those 300 yards? Part of the reason we had running room is because we kept throwing it. Usually you have to have complete it for that to really work, but the interceptions worked to counter the lack of production- thus keeping the safety deep.

You can't tell me that you know that if we would have ran the ball more it would have resulted in more production. Just like I haven't argued that our stats would be looking much better if we hadn't had major injuries for half the year. Your speculating. When you have 200 yards on the ground, unless your Army, it is foolish to say that the o coordinator "didn't call running plays".

 

[The Mook]

I was thinking the same thing . Wasn't it paging P. W. Herman?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaBgd_nOXKM]YouTube - paging Mr Herman[/ame]

 

[jbhtexas]

You can't tell me that you know that if we would have ran the ball more it would have resulted in more production.

You're right. I don't know what would have happened. It just seemed rather foolish to keep trying and failing at the same thing. In the end, the offense scored way to few points on that day, and that's really all that matters.

 

[jaretac]

Okay, you want scoring offense, here you go

2008: 25.3
2009: 20.5, but I'm not finished

Big 12 scoring D
2008: 29.26
2009: 22.86

Big 12 scoring D improved by 6.4 points a 21% improvement while ISU's scoring O declined by 4.8, a 18% decline. With all that said, we were closer to league average this season than we were last season. Now some may argue that Big 12 offenses were down, which is correct, but how much of that was cause by better defense? Keep in mind that the Big 12 had 3 teams in the top 10 in total defense this season and last season didn't even have one team in the top 50.

 

[jbhtexas]

Now some may argue that Big 12 offenses were down, which is correct, but how much of that was cause by better defense?

Probably not as much as you think. Bradford out at OU...Dez Bryant out at OSU...Griffin out at BU...QB injury/issues at TT. ISU wasn't the only school with key offensive injuries. Plus, if you throw in the program collapse at KU and unrest at TT (two higher-scoring offesnive in the previous year), it's not hard to see why the defenses would look better this past season.

 

[Bobber]

Probably not as much as you think. Bradford out at OU...Dez Bryant out at OSU...Griffin out at BU...QB injury/issues at TT. ISU wasn't the only school with key offensive injuries. Plus, if you throw in the program collapse at KU and unrest at TT (two higher-scoring offesnive in the previous year), it's not hard to see why the defenses would look better this past season.

Don't forget about Nebraska's key offensive losses from the year prior.:biggrin::biglaugh:.

Seriouly if they would have had a half way decent offense, can you imagine how far they could have gone?

 

[jaretac]

Okay, so would you say that ISU's defense was improved from last year?

If you say yes, how do we know that it wasn't just because the offenses were that much worse?

If you say no you loss credibility.

 

[Tedcyclone]

id rather have more rushing yards, when its that high of number... youll be in way more games.... 08 had more passing yards, and how many wins? stats like that are just stupid.. who cares... strong d, and running game will win more games... period.

 

[Bobber]

id rather have more rushing yards, when its that high of number... youll be in way more games.... 08 had more passing yards, and how many wins? stats like that are just stupid.. who cares... strong d, and running game will win more games... period.

Not sure I agree with that. That would be old style Nebraska thinking. Not a bad way to go granted, but I'll take a Bill Walsh West Coast offense over it.

 

[jbhtexas]

Okay, so would you say that ISU's defense was improved from last year?

If you say yes, how do we know that it wasn't just because the offenses were that much worse?

If you say no you loss credibility.

So, it was not possible for offenses to be worse and for ISU defense to improve at the same time? I see...

And there's no need to lecture me on credibility. I wasn't the one who purposely left out a drop in scoring from the previous year when trying to argue that the offensive coordinator was doing a good job...

You should stop now...

 

[D UP Clones]

I've heard many people say they were disappointed in what Herman did last year. I haven't really looked at it until today and here is what I found out.

___________2008________2009
rushing-----1661---------2340
passing-----2981---------2401
total-------4642---------4741
3rd %------38%---------41%
4th %------50%---------58%
red zone----71%---------84%
1st downs---241---------252

Except for passing yards, ISU improved in every area despite Big 12 defenses being dramatically improved over last season (Average total defense for the Big 12: 2008-402.14 ypg, 2009-340.44 ypg) and being year one into implementing a completely different system from what ISU has had in the past. I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do next year.

Yeah, but the person you need to thank for improved 3rd down conversions and red zone offense is Arnaud and his running ability. ISU had zero short yardage offense without Arnaud.

In the bowl game he converted at least two big third downs by pulling it down and running for first downs. So when Herman questions Arnaud's decision making, he also better thank him for saving his butt by running over people in the short yardage game and red zone.

I like Robinson, but he can't get it done when ISU needs a couple of yards and the D knows they are running the ball.