Golf physics question

[clonedude]

Simple question: How do you hit a draw that starts to the right of the target and curves back towards the target?

In order to do that, you have to have an open clubface to the target at impact, and your swing path has to be on a path even more "in to out" (to the right) than your clubface is pointing..... correct?

I always have swung in to out, but had my clubface pointed to the target. That will produce a draw, however, the ball will start out towards the target and draw away from the target, which you don't want.

I just have difficulty swinging with an open clubface when trying to draw it. Seems so wrong.

 

[Cyclonepride]

Jack had the easiest explanation to hit draw or fade (for right handed)

Draw- point your club face toward where you want the ball to end up, and square up your body to a point to the right of that.

Fade, square up your body to the left of that

 

[Bigman38]

Are the CF casuals out there doing this?

I was watching the PGA Championship this weekend thinking that I don't know anyone who has enough control to pull that off but I'm not exactly golfing with the ringers either. My swing is getting a little bit better and I wondered if it was something worth messing around with.

 

[mywayorcyway]

In order to do that, you have to have an open clubface to the target at impact, and your swing path has to be on a path even more "in to out" (to the right) than your clubface is pointing..... correct?

Draw and open club face does not play nice together. If you want to hit a draw at a target, you need to aim right of the target (if you are right handed).

 

[cycloneG]

Draw and open club face does not play nice together. If you want to hit a draw at a target, you need to aim right of the target (if you are right handed).

This is how I play my draw.

 

[clonedude]

This is why I started this thread.

Open clubface at impact to me is so counterintuitive to producing a draw, but supposedly that is correct. Studies have shown that the ball will start out in the direction the club face is pointing at impact... no matter what your club path is on. So an in to out swing with a club face pointed at the target will start out at the target and draw left of the target.

As long as your swing path is more to the right than your clubface is pointing, the ball will draw. So you want a club face pointing slightly to the right, but your path going even more to the right than your clubface, and that will produce a ball that starts to the right and comes back.

 

[cymac2408]

I am curious as to everyone’s handicap. I picked the game up when I retired August 2020. I started out high 90s to mid 100s. I am now low 90s to mid 80s. I’ve had 1 lesson but I was wondering if anyone had any advice on hitting more consistently. Before August I played only 3 times a year due to being too busy.

 

[clonedude]

 

[isutrevman]

Jack had the easiest explanation to hit draw or fade (for right handed)

Draw- point your club face toward where you want the ball to end up, and square up your body to a point to the right of that.

Fade, square up your body to the left of that

In my experience (I'm not good at it), this will produce a bigger draw/fade than is desired. I heard it explained as basically what you described, only instead of aiming the clubface at the target, you'd aim it about half way between where your body is pointed, and the target. I believe the ball will start out on a line that is about halfway between your body line and the club face line, then the side spin takes care of the rest. For example. To hit a 20 yard fade:

-Align your body (shoulders, feet) 20 yard to the left of the target.
-Aim the clubface about 10 yard left of the target.
-The initial trajectory of the ball will be approximately 15 yards left of target.
-The ball will curve the additional 15 yards.

Obviously pros aren't consciously thinking about this. Just like you don't calculate how hard to hit a 40 yard putt. With some practice, it becomes intuitive where to aim and where to point the face to get the ball to end up where you want.

I never try hitting a fade or draw unless I'm forced to, to avoid a tree. I'm guessing very few non-scratch golfers would hit them reliably enough to use it when they don't absolutely have to.

This is from coming from a 12 handicap, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[JM4CY]

Good thing I slice the hell out of the ball and don’t have to worry about this.

 

[isutrevman]

View attachment 98998

This falls in line with my way of thinking. You don't want the club face pointed at the target to start. Needs to point to the right for a draw (but not as much as your body) and to the left for a face (but not as much as your body).

 

[isutrevman]

Good thing I slice the hell out of the hall and don’t have to worry about this.

Vaseline. Or so I hear.

 

[clonedude]

Jack had the easiest explanation to hit draw or fade (for right handed)

Draw- point your club face toward where you want the ball to end up, and square up your body to a point to the right of that.

Fade, square up your body to the left of that

This is what I was always taught growing up too from my Dad.

But the science now says this is wrong. If you point your club face where you want the ball to end up (the target), and swing in to out, the ball will start at the target and curve left of the target.

The club face needs to be closed to the PATH, but open to the target.

 

[isutrevman]

It's also much easier to fade/draw long irons as you get more contact on the side of the ball which creates more sidespin. Also why you don't often have a big slicing PW. I think a draw is slightly easier with more lofted clubs than a fade since the club face is delofted somewhat since it's a more closed face. Think of the famous Bubba Watson draw he hit our of the trees with a PW on the first playoff hole to win the Masters. I don't think he could have gotten enough curve if he was right handed and had to hit a fade.

 

[isutrevman]

This is what I was always taught growing up too from my Dad.

But the science now says this is wrong. If you point your club face where you want the ball to end up (the target), and swing in to out, the ball will start at the target and curve left of the target.

The club face needs to be closed to the PATH, but open to the target.

Agree. Aim the club face right between your swing path and the target. I think that gets you pretty close.

 

[clonedude]

Agree. Aim the club face right between your swing path and the target. I think that gets you pretty close.

What confuses me with the pros is that a lot of times when they are hitting draws, their feet still appear open to be open to the target line, not closed to it.

Which I guess is still possible.... to swing inside to out with your feet still open or square to the target. I just rarely see the pros lined up really closed to the target EVER.

 

[Cyclonepride]

This is what I was always taught growing up too from my Dad.

But the science now says this is wrong. If you point your club face where you want the ball to end up (the target), and swing in to out, the ball will start at the target and curve left of the target.

The club face needs to be closed to the PATH, but open to the target.

I’ll let you tell Jack it doesn’t work lol. Works pretty well for me

 

[CascadeClone]

Jack had the easiest explanation to hit draw or fade (for right handed)

Draw- point your club face toward where you want the ball to end up, and square up your body to a point to the right of that.

Fade, square up your body to the left of that

The only real golf instruction we got in hs was watching tapes of "golf my way".

Its actually not that hard to hit a (intentional!) draw or fade, just takes practice.

 

[clonedude]

I’ll let you tell Jack it doesn’t work lol. Works pretty well for me

Okay. You trust what Jack thinks is happening in the swing... and I'll trust decades of science and studies on what is happening in the golf swing.

If you're getting good results doing what you're doing... good for you. But I'll bet anything if your ball is starting to the right of the target that your clubface is open to the target line at impact.

 

[clonedude]

The only real golf instruction we got in hs was watching tapes of "golf my way".

Its actually not that hard to hit a (intentional!) draw or fade, just takes practice.

I can hit a draw fine.... just have trouble starting it to the right of the target. Mine starts towards the target and draws away from the target line.

I know what I need to do to correct it, I just have to get over the thought in my mind that I need to actually have an open club face at impact. So counterintuitive for me.