Defending Pollard: the wrong point of emphasis.

mitya51

Member
Oct 9, 2012
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Everyone is so quick to defend Pollard with the disclaimer "we aren't saying that the call cost us the game." Obviously Pollard's comments are an appeal to somehow change the culture of officiating in the Big 12, and I applaud him for it, despite the unintended consequence.

I do think it is unfortunate that many outsiders will check out Pollards comments on ESPN or whatever, and will think he is whining, and that ISU has a bad underdog complex. But when you look at the actual reversal, it is clearly such an incredibly egregious error- absolutely no indisputable evidence to reverse the call on the field- that I think it puts conspiracy theories on the table. Is money changing hands? is there unethical pressure on officials from the big dogs in the league? Was the replay official an effing Cowboy fan? wtf?!

Whatever the reason for the call, that's not the point of this post. I would like to criticize the defensive point of emphasis coming from many people who are defending Pollard with the above disclaimer. "nobody is saying the call cost us the game." I understand the point, but I think its the wrong point of emphasis. Everybody knows that momentum is a very significant dynamic in a game. Intangible, but significant. Rather than saying, "hey we're not saying we would have won. . . " i'd like to hear something like, "the call was incontrovertibly horrible, it changed the momentum in a major way, and therefore, it influenced the outcome of the game beyond what the scoreboard reflects. Without a doubt." Personally, I would be inclined to say that, if we get that stop at the end of the half, we have maybe a 30% chance of winning the game. But as it turned out, our chances were slim to none without a wave of momentum and confidence coming into the 2nd half.
 

State43

Well-Known Member
Nov 22, 2010
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Somehow, not arguing the outcome of the game gives the complaint more legitimacy. Silly but that is the reason for it.
 

Luth4Cy

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2012
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Pollard could have waited for a bad call in a game we would could have won, but that next call may have come in a huge game, Big 12 championship game in men's basketball, game to go bowling in football. Don't blame Pollard a bit.
 

usedcarguy

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Apr 12, 2008
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If the Big 12 conference has made the case for anything, it can only be for abandoning replay. At least for us, it's not even worth having...
 

clone4sure

Active Member
Sep 5, 2014
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Pollard is tired of being the team to" take it on the chin" for the Big XII conference. You might recall that we took Texas A&M slot for the Humanitarian Bowl in 2004 when they refused to go. ISU was promised the next time we went to a Bowl they would help our cause. Never Happened !
 

clone4sure

Active Member
Sep 5, 2014
173
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Pollard is tired of being the team to" take it on the chin" for the conference. You might recall that we took Texas A&M slot for the Humanitarian Bowl in 2004 when they refused to go. ISU was promised the next time we went to a Bowl they would help our cause. Never Happened !
 

VeloClone

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Jan 19, 2010
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If the Big 12 conference has made the case for anything, it can only be for abandoning replay. At least for us, it's not even worth having...

It still helps to get more calls right than wrong. I watched a lot of Big 8 and Big 12 football before replay and ISU got hosed an awful lot back then as well. It is just that much more frustrating now when they have every chance to get it right and they choose to get it wrong anyway. Besides, you can turn up the heat that much more when they blow the obvious call with the advantage of replay; no "the game is just too fast for the refs these days" excuses.

Besides, if I agreed with you, I would have to give up this win:

[video=youtube;VyzCw6y1yYU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyzCw6y1yYU[/video]
Thanks for giving me still another chance to post that. It never gets old.
 
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cemarclone

Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Danny Mac had 2 Big 12 north titles essentially taken from his grasp when goal line stands were reverseved by replay officials where the ball was not even visible in the pile of players in the middle of the field. The key to this entire discussion is "indisputable". The Big 12 has said that there was sufficient evidence to reverse the call, which is an admission on the Big 12's part that the rules were BROKEN by the replay official. It requires 100% proof to be indisputable, which the Big 12 is admitting did not happen here. It was only sufficient, which is far below indisputable.
 

Spam

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May 21, 2008
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I don't think it will change the culture officiating one bit. But I do think it will fire up our players, fans, coaches etc. A midseason refreshment
 

clones26

Well-Known Member
Nov 8, 2006
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Kind of like the movie "View from the Top"

viewfromthetopwrongemphasiswrongsyllable.jpg
 

Spam

Well-Known Member
May 21, 2008
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The definition of indisputable needs to change, because what is indisputable is itself disputable. Instead of looking for indisputable evidence, maybe the referees need to be told to think "if 100 professional officials saw this replay, would all 100 of them overturn the call on the field?"
 

VeloClone

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2010
45,778
35,146
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Brooklyn Park, MN
Danny Mac had 2 Big 12 north titles essentially taken from his grasp when goal line stands were reverseved by replay officials where the ball was not even visible in the pile of players in the middle of the field. The key to this entire discussion is "indisputable". The Big 12 has said that there was sufficient evidence to reverse the call, which is an admission on the Big 12's part that the rules were BROKEN by the replay official. It requires 100% proof to be indisputable, which the Big 12 is admitting did not happen here. It was only sufficient, which is far below indisputable.

I alway took their use of sufficient to mean "enough to satisfy the rules" - ergo: indisputable.
 

Cyclophile1

Well-Known Member
Dec 14, 2009
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Overland Park, KS
All I want is data and transparency.

I want a system that shows the video that replay officials are looking at, and a database to capture the decision points: the on-field call and the decision from the replay official (overturn, stands, or confirm). That's it.

From there, we can make some real assessments that won't sound like sour grapes or conspiracy.

Media types who feel like will be able to go and look and see that Iowa State had 57 plays reviewed in Big12 play over a five-tear period and find that 54 of them went against ISU, for a net "favorable ruling" ratio of 5% (who knows what the number are but it feels like 5% to me). If errors are distributed randomly and their no bias in the system, (as the Big12 asserts) every school SHOULD be hovering around 50% give or take some reasonable range. What would happen if that writer were to find that 48 of Texas' 61 reviews in the same 5-year period went in their favor, for a favorability factor of 79%?

The powers that be don't want this kind of transparency. I don't know what the numbers are, but I would like to see them. I would guess that we're out of the bounds of reasonable error on reviewed plays, while some other schools are on the beneficiary side of things.
 
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isu81

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2013
2,348
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Danny Mac had 2 Big 12 north titles essentially taken from his grasp when goal line stands were reverseved by replay officials where the ball was not even visible in the pile of players in the middle of the field. The key to this entire discussion is "indisputable". The Big 12 has said that there was sufficient evidence to reverse the call, which is an admission on the Big 12's part that the rules were BROKEN by the replay official. It requires 100% proof to be indisputable, which the Big 12 is admitting did not happen here. It was only sufficient, which is far below indisputable.

I don't recall this. Is there any kind of link you can provide? According to this, the first season replay was used in any form in college football was 2006, McCarney's last year and one in which we went 1-7 in conference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant_replay_in_American_and_Canadian_football
 

intrepid27

Well-Known Member
Oct 9, 2006
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Marion, IA
This would not work during a game but in this case I'd like to see the video frame(s) that shows indisputable proof that the ball crossed the plane. If the replay crew sees something they should be able to share that "indesputible" proof Without a camera right on the goal line it does not exist.
 

RubyClone

Active Member
Mar 21, 2014
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I don't think it will change the culture officiating one bit. But I do think it will fire up our players, fans, coaches etc. A midseason refreshment

It will be interesting to see how it works out. I think JP was simply defending/protecting his coach from another podium speech and getting rung up for it.

And going with that idea that sometimes BBall coaches get the T not so much because of the last call, but to get the next one.... perhaps JP is getting the T for the next call.
 

ICHawk24

Active Member
Sep 8, 2010
437
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College football replay has long since stopped using "indisputable", even though its still in the written rule. Replay is an unfair system, but I don't think its a conspiracy.
 

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