COLUMN: An analysis on the future of Iowa State basketball

[Cycl1]

I'm not sure if they don't want to answer the question or if they haven't seen the notification yet.. But I'm honestly wondering besides last year, where they believe Prohm has underachieved. Last year we probably underachieved during the Big 12 going only 9-9. We probably should've been better than that but I don't think we were better than Tech or K-State when they were fully healthy. We also definitely underachieved in the NCAA tournament by one game. We should've been in the second round for sure, but to say we would've automatically beaten Houston or even gone on and beat Kentucky in the Sweet 16 would be pretty wishful thinking.

So was it Prohm's first year as the head coach where he basically had 6 Big 12 caliber players, went to the Sweet 16, and ended the season ranked #22? Was it the following year where we had a great Big 12 record, won the Big 12 Tournament, lost by inches to the best Big 10 team and ended the year ranked #16? I don't think we underachieved in either season honestly.

Two years ago and this year we haven't underachieved. We weren't better than our record two years ago and we're not better than our record currently. Both years are disappointing for sure but not underachieving.

That can be his new selling point. "Hey, we may be historically terrible, but we don't underachieve."

So to clarify your post and what you said, he underachieved with his own players last year by going .500 in conference play, and under achieved in the NCAA tournament, and the other 2 years we were just awful.

 

[CascadeClone]

Everyone can have an opinion, yes, but that doesn't mean the opinion is valid lol. I could have an opinion on biological engineering but that doesn't mean that anything that I say or think will be taken seriously..
Also tell me, besides last year's team.. what other team has Steve Prohm coached that has underperformed relative to their talent?

How about this year's team?
They aren't great, but are they "worst loss in Hilton" bad?
Are they "lost to FAMU in Hilton" bad?
Are they "uncompetitive from the jump and got smoked by Iowa in Hilton" bad?
et al

I would say, no, they aren't that bad. I think there is a majority on this board who would agree.

His first year, they were 10-8 in conference with FIVE current NBA players (Monte, Georges, Nader, Burton, Matty Ice). I didn't count Naz, I think he was hurt that year, right? That seems like they could have done better than 1 win above .500 with that deep a roster. Yes the Big12 was loaded that year, but only 3 road wins and 2 home losses. Middle of the pack with FIVE NBA dudes.

Second year, they were 12-6 in conference with FOUR of those NBA guys (Monte, Naz, Burton, Matty Ice) which is better. The Big12 was worse which helped. Biggest problem on that team was the inability to find a big to replace McKay or Niang. CSP never really figured out playing small was the answer until halftime of the Purdue loss in the NCAA. What if he had got a half-decent big? What if he decided on going small and fast a LOT earlier on? I'm not sure if this was an underperform or not, probably not, in fairness. But a better coach would have figured it out sooner and had a better result.

Third year, they were not good at all. The best players on the team were sitting out. 4-14 in conference was bad but probably about right. They had some bad losses, but also a couple nice upsets. This was not an underperform.

So in 5 years, I would say 3 underperforms, 1 maybe, and 1 okay.

Thanks for your interest in my opinion.

 

[Cyched]

Second year, they were 12-6 in conference with FOUR of those NBA guys (Monte, Naz, Burton, Matty Ice) which is better. The Big12 was worse which helped. Biggest problem on that team was the inability to find a big to replace McKay or Niang. CSP never really figured out playing small was the answer until halftime of the Purdue loss in the NCAA. What if he had got a half-decent big? What if he decided on going small and fast a LOT earlier on? I'm not sure if this was an underperform or not, probably not, in fairness. But a better coach would have figured it out sooner and had a better result.

@Sigmapolis

 

[madguy30]

Both Hoiberg and Prohm have had intense practices. I mean literally last year there was a practice which resulted in multiple fights lol. The problem is the narrative was then "Coach Prohm has lost the team" when that happened.

And all indications were that Larry literally lost the 00-01 team or at least couldn't fix some dysfunction.

 

[Cat Stevens]

How about this year's team?
They aren't great, but are they "worst loss in Hilton" bad?
Are they "lost to FAMU in Hilton" bad?
Are they "uncompetitive from the jump and got smoked by Iowa in Hilton" bad?
et al

I would say, no, they aren't that bad. I think there is a majority on this board who would agree.

His first year, they were 10-8 in conference with FIVE current NBA players (Monte, Georges, Nader, Burton, Matty Ice). I didn't count Naz, I think he was hurt that year, right? That seems like they could have done better than 1 win above .500 with that deep a roster. Yes the Big12 was loaded that year, but only 3 road wins and 2 home losses. Middle of the pack with FIVE NBA dudes.

Second year, they were 12-6 in conference with FOUR of those NBA guys (Monte, Naz, Burton, Matty Ice) which is better. The Big12 was worse which helped. Biggest problem on that team was the inability to find a big to replace McKay or Niang. CSP never really figured out playing small was the answer until halftime of the Purdue loss in the NCAA. What if he had got a half-decent big? What if he decided on going small and fast a LOT earlier on? I'm not sure if this was an underperform or not, probably not, in fairness. But a better coach would have figured it out sooner and had a better result.

Third year, they were not good at all. The best players on the team were sitting out. 4-14 in conference was bad but probably about right. They had some bad losses, but also a couple nice upsets. This was not an underperform.

So in 5 years, I would say 3 underperforms, 1 maybe, and 1 okay.

Thanks for your interest in my opinion.

So I’ll ask, again, just to make sure.

you saw Nader as a sure fire draft pick going into his senior season?

you weren't’ one of the ones calling Matt a bust after not playing much his sophomore year.

you saw Burton, who had yet to play a game in a cyclone uniform as an nba guy?

and you thought Naz was well rounded enough to get time on an nba roster as well?

man you are really good. I’m calling Pop to let him know he needs to hire you as a scout. Make the guys that found tony and manu look like nothing.

PM me your info so I can pass it along to the spurs front office.

 

[Cat Stevens]

And all indications were that Larry literally lost the 00-01 team or at least couldn't fix some dysfunction.

Read Paul Shirleys book. It will give you an idea how bad it got.

 

[NWICY]

Cough

"We good?"

******* cheaters.

100% agree on the cheating part but that gif is funny.

 

[Sigmapolis]

@Sigmapolis

Are we talking about the year when Frank Mason III won B12 and national POTY?

That year was apex B12, not a step down.

 

[Cyched]

Are we talking about the year when Frank Mason III won B12 and national POTY?

That year was apex B12, not a step down.

Yup, I believe he's talking about 2017.

 

[bosco]

You can preach fundamentals all day long, but the kids still have to go out there and execute them correctly. Against high level competition, even the slightest mess up can result in a negative outcome. Prohm and this staff teach fundamentals, but some of our players haven't exactly displayed them correctly. Some kids just can't do it at all because their high school never taught them the basics. They may end up working out the kinks but they may not. Some are fundamentally sound but there are times when the high level competition diminishes the fundamentals. There are also the guys who practice the fundamentals and are perfect in practice but once the bright lights come on, those fly out the window.

We have guys on this team that are not cut out to play this level of basketball night in and night out. Prentiss Nixon is not a Big 12 starting guard. He should be playing minutes that Hallice Cook did here back in the day. Mike Jacobson is a nice player, actually very fundamentally sound, but the reality is that he probably should not be playing the minutes he does at the current 4 position in the Big 12. Terrence just hasn't figured it out and it's probably safe to say at this point he probably never will. He's such a liability on defense and his inability to know the sets on offense completely negates his offensive scoring abilities. Who knows on Zion. He's athletic enough to play at this level but he's out of control on offense and hasn't figured out how to be a weapon on defense yet.

Tre Jackson and Caleb Grill were thrown to the wolves this year. Both of them were not ready at all but we needed bodies. This could end up helping them in the long run and both of them look like they could be figuring it all out. They're probably the best defenders on the team at the guard position and they're freshman, which is a very good sign. Solomon Young struggled at times but has ended up being the most solid player on this team besides a healthy Tyrese. He's very fundamentally sound and does a lot of nice things. He will be a very nice senior to have next year. Conditt defensively is there. He's probably one of the best shot blockers in the nation but his offensive production has dipped and he's still getting into foul trouble which decreases his minutes. He's opened up his game a bit more offensively and I think doing that is going to drastically increase how he's used on offense. Bolton is good, but he's raw. There's so much talent and athleticism there and I think he's going to end up being very good for us in the future. Getting him off the point guard position is going to help him a lot and open up his driving and shooting abilities. Defensively, he'll get there.

To round this all out.. We just don't have the horses this year. Guys are playing a lot of minutes that are either not cut out for this level at all, or still need time to get better and develop their games. The subtraction of a couple of guys and the addition of high level athletic talent is going to completely change how this team is next year. We need one more piece to fall in JUCO or grad transfer and this team and program will be playing at a high level once again. Good things are coming.

It sucks that THT went pro earlier than anyone had anticipated, and we are paying for that now. But, as soon as TH went and won in Europe, you had to see that the NBA was going to be an option for him after this year. Prohm needs to get better at managing a roster. Know what you have for sure coming back and what you need and then go get it. I kind of feel like communication with the players is an issue, because he doesn't seem to have any idea what the guys are thinking and therefore can't plan for the future accordingly.

Next year's team needs a starting PG and a scoring wing. Whether that's JUCO or grad transfer. If Prohm can fix that, he's going to get fired after next season.

It's pretty clear that Prohm is going to force feed us Bolton as PG next year. This smells of Wigginton. He just doesn't have the mentality of a PG. Jackson, I think could be a PG but hasn't shown the ability.

 

[randomfan44]

Agree. Kansas has definitely shown how this is done.

You would be hard pressed to find a staff of assistant coaches who have been together with the same head coach for a longer than Self, Roberts, Townsend and Snacks.

 

[Cycl1]

You would be hard pressed to find a staff of assistant coaches who have been together with the same head coach for a longer than Self, Roberts, Townsend and Snacks.

When they all enter a recruits home do they play Shane McMahon's entrance music?

 

[CoKane]

Everyone can have an opinion, yes, but that doesn't mean the opinion is valid lol. I could have an opinion on biological engineering but that doesn't mean that anything that I say or think will be taken seriously..

Also tell me, besides last year's team.. what other team has Steve Prohm coached that has underperformed relative to their talent?

His first season he went 10-8 in conference with what might have been the most talented Cyclone teams in recent history. That's a pretty big underachievement. We were only 1 game above 7th place that year and playing on Wednesday

 

[jsb]

His first season he went 10-8 in conference with what might have been the most talented Cyclone teams in recent history. That's a pretty big underachievement. We were only 1 game above 7th place that year and playing on Wednesday

We finished tied for 5th. One game out of 4th and 2 out of 3rd, it's fair to point that out since you seem insistent on pointing out that they were one game out of 7th. Also, it might be fair to point out that we played the entire conference season without Naz. Seems to me that is a big issue. Also fair to point out we finished the season ranked #22 in the AP poll and #19 in the coaches poll.

 

[akclone]

You would be hard pressed to find a staff of assistant coaches who have been together with the same head coach for a longer than Self, Roberts, Townsend and Snacks.

True, but it helps to have great players on the payroll as well.

 

[akclone]

Ya get what ya pay for sometimes. Maybe the additional investment in hotel rooms back in 2013 or 2014 would have helped keep Fred here.

 

[Cyched]

Ya get what ya pay for sometimes. Maybe the additional investment in hotel rooms back in 2013 or 2014 would have helped keep Fred here.

People still think this is why Fred left?

 

[akclone]

People still think this is why Fred left?

Do you think that asking teams to checkout of rooms early or charging coaches families to fly with the team helps keep coaches here or drives them away?

They had just won the tourney in HI, getting all kinds of exposure for ISU and the AD has them check out early. That's cheap BS.

SP is the value coach the AD wants. Being just OK will work here.

 

[Cyched]

Do you think that asking teams to checkout of rooms early or charging coaches families to fly with the team helps keep coaches here or drives them away?

They had just won the tourney in HI, getting all kinds of exposure for ISU and the AD has them check out early. That's cheap BS.

SP is the value coach the AD wants. Being just OK will work here.

They weren't forced to check out early; they checked out and had to kill a few hours before their flight to avoid getting charged an extra night. Pretty standard practice for anyone who travels.

Why do you think Fred refuted the article so emphatically?

 

[Cat Stevens]

People still think this is why Fred left?

I really had hoped it was sarcasm. But he doubled down.

imagine