Coaching Graveyard theory.....

[BoxsterCy]

It really has only been a graveyard and end of the line for Jim Waldon.

Johnny Majors goes on to win a national championship at Pittsburgh
Earl Bruce coaches at thee Ohio State
Donny Duncan only head coached three years and not at all after ISU but was AD at OU for a decade.
Chiz get a national championship at Auburn
Danny is still head coaching

Graveyard my ***.

 

[Spam]

The 2nd half of that quote on tv about the airports was that Iowa High School football players are not very good at football. Just for context.

Did Rhoads supposedly say that?

 

[isufbcurt]

And I'm totally on board with this as being a great reason why we can't expect to compete with schools like UT or OU year in and year out. Where this falls apart is explaining why we are losing to schools like UNI, NDSU, Tulsa, and Toledo? Do they have better airport access than we do? Do they have better brand recognition with parents to leverage in recruiting? Nope. Neither does KU (at least for football), or Mizzou prior to the Pinkel resurgence. And if Ames is a remote P5 outpost, then Manhattan KS is on the freaking moon.

There are a laundry list of reasons why we won't ever be a regular championship contender in this league, and honestly I think most of the fan base accepts that. My goals right now would be .500 football and sustained mediocrity. And that is where I am having a tough time figuring out what hurdles we have to getting there that can't be overcome with the right staff and the right plan. The travel situation to Ames shouldn't be too bad for that, nor is our budget, nor is our tradition, nor is the local recruiting base. I'm really just looking for a team that can go 3-0 vs FCS, mid-major, KU, and then 3-6 against the rest of the schedule to make a bowl. With the resources we put into the football program, that should be doable.

I am not trying to argue but your examples don't make sense. UNI, NDSU, Tulsa and Toledo don't recruit FL, TX, and CA like we do (Well Tulsa might recruit Texas but they are still relatively close). NDSU's roster is made up of upper Midwest kids and while that may be ok to build a powerhouse in FCS it probably wouldn't hold up week to week in a P5 conference. KSU has the same logistical problems as ISU has which is probably why they built their program with Kansas JUCO (Kansas has long been known for good JUCO football programs) kids which were easy to get to their campus.

Our tradition? We have no winning tradition, the best record in ISU history is 9-3 which happened in 2000 on a team I was part of, oh and this also happened to be the FIRST bowl win in ISU history (Btw the 2000 9-3 team will be honored on Oct. 17 because it's the 15 year anniversary).

I just wanted to provide some insight into the whole airport thing which seems to have gotten everyone going crazy.

 

[isufbcurt]

Did Rhoads supposedly say that?

No that was the commentator's addition.

 

[HandSanitizer]

I say we just start cheating and our recruits get a bunch of women
That is what the SEC does. And if we get caught? What...Probation? right now we are putting ourselves on probation while not cheating and we are not good.

 

[HoustonClone]

It's almost 100% the coach that matters. Look what happens at the "big-time schools with plenty of "attitude and expectations" - and facilities - when they hire the wrong coach. Off the top of my head:
Alabama when they hired Mike Shula.
Michigan with the last two hires prior to Harbaugh.
Notre Dame with Weiss.
Florida with Muschamp.
USC with their HC hires prior to Carroll.
OU with John Blake.
Texas now.
It goes on and on. You can have EVERYTHING - but if you hire the wrong coach, it doesn't matter.

I appreciate your argument...and you cited many programs who have established attitude, expectations and appropriate support to match. In those scenarios, the right coach, in my opinion, is the missing link and is placed WITHIN the culture, for better or worse. My question then turns to schools (like ours) who have not yet established a winning culture...and my contention is that to build it demands much more than just a coach, although a coach can act as a catalyst for change. Perhaps you and I are not far off....different starting points?

 

[norcalcy]

I think Lou Holtz actually made the coaching graveyard remark about ISU. As others have eloquently stated, much has changed since Lou slobbered those words. First and foremost is facilities. Secondly is the sheer size of the university, the prosperity of its alumni base and its support of athletics.

Most importantly, just about every D1 coach signs a 5 year deal and gets something north of $1M for a base and with incentives and add-ons can get to the $1.5M to $1.75 range pretty easily. Granted that puts you in a prettty good tax bracket, but unless you are a complete moron the day you sign that contract you are set financially for life.

As a bonus, you are living in a low cost area with great schools and quality of life. Just because jerk off Chizik did us dirty doesn't mean there isn't a bright 30-40 year old who can't come in here and put up a .600 winning percentage over five years. If he gets poached by one of the big boys so be it. I will finally get to see some competent football.

 

[GMan]

ISU is a much better program than the "coaching graveyard" perception of it, but whether you agree with that or not, the main idea to keep in mind when discussing the job is that it comes with appropriate expectations. In concrete terms, you only need to go .500 for a few years. At best, there are only a couple of P5 conference teams with lower expectations. If you do that, you will be rewarded with a big contract extension, and you will probably be able to go to a bigger program if you want to.

I'm not 100% sure of this, but around the time that Rhoads signed his contract extension, weren't there rumblings that he was a candidate at Ohio State? Also, wasn't this also true for the Wisconsin job? The point being if you achieve your modest expectations at ISU, you can move on to much bigger things if you want to.

 

[jsb]

ISU is a much better program than the "coaching graveyard" perception of it, but whether you agree with that or not, the main idea to keep in mind when discussing the job is that it comes with appropriate expectations. In concrete terms, you only need to go .500 for a few years. At best, there are only a couple of P5 conference teams with lower expectations. If you do that, you will be rewarded with a big contract extension, and you will probably be able to go to a bigger program if you want to.

I'm not 100% sure of this, but around the time that Rhoads signed his contract extension, weren't there rumblings that he was a candidate at Ohio State? Also, wasn't this also true for the Wisconsin job? The point being if you achieve your modest expectations at ISU, you can move on to much bigger things if you want to.

I doubt he was a serious candidate at Ohio State, but I know he was at Pitt, Wisconsin, and Illinois.

 

[dirtyninety]

Perception is reality. We are close to getting an absolute satanic robotic Manchurian candidate as our next Fuehrer because of what the PR firms and Marketing experts have realized how to impress a perception on a slim 51% majority. That and governing by giving out free ****. Free College!!! All debt soon to be forgiven....passed on to????

 

[dirtyninety]

I doubt he was a serious candidate at Ohio State, but I know he was at Pitt, Wisconsin, and Illinois.

NFW. CPR was a serious candidate at no school. Good PR.

 

[GMan]

Perception is reality. We are close to getting an absolute satanic robotic Manchurian candidate as our next Fuehrer because of what the PR firms and Marketing experts have realized how to impress a perception on a slim 51% majority. That and governing by giving out free ****. Free College!!! All debt soon to be forgiven....passed on to????

Put down the bottle...

 

[Spam]

Perception is reality. We are close to getting an absolute satanic robotic Manchurian candidate as our next Fuehrer because of what the PR firms and Marketing experts have realized how to impress a perception on a slim 51% majority. That and governing by giving out free ****. Free College!!! All debt soon to be forgiven....passed on to????

...that went above my un-intellectual head

 

[dirtyninety]

...that went above my un-intellectual head

You don't like getting free ****??? Hell, give me some of your free **** and I will vote for you. It is not complicated.

 

[istater7]

NFW. CPR was a serious candidate at no school. Good PR.

Pretty sure Chris Williams has said otherwise in the past.

 

[Stormin]

If you can win @ Iowa, you can win @ Iowa State. If you can win @ Kansas State, you can win @ Iowa State. BOTH Hayden Fry AND Bill Snyder took over, much, much worse situation than Iowa State has ever faced, and I was in school during the Walden years! lol. ISU just needs a Hayden Fry or a Bill Snyder type HC who maximizes what he would have in Ames, Iowa AND STAYS around for awhile! Johnny Majors and Earle Bruce were the right type of guys, but they left. Currently, PR is the wrong guy, but he is staying around for awhile. lol. ISU needs a Johnny or Earle who will STAY.

Johnny Majors only had 1 winning season. Majors 1972 team started out 5-1 and never won another game that season after that. They were 0-5-1 in their last 6 games. And Majors actually has a worse conference record than CPR.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

Ames is a nice place. But we just had a coach that legitimately loved Ames and he found a better place to coach. So we probably shouldn't be selling Ames as the best place ever.

That coach didn't leave Ames because it blows.....he left to pursue his dreams in the professional ranks.

 

[IAStubborn]

Sorry cause I've not read a single post in this but here's the real deal on the "graveyard theory"....CPR is SIGNIFICANTLY under .500 and he will be walking away from his job of 7 years with what...15 million dollars in earnings?

There are a lot of coaches in America that know that while you might not win big in Ames you can become wealthy beyond measure coaching at ISU. CPR is walking out of here with more money than he or his family could ever spend without being tools about it. Along with the fact that he could still get a DC job at some pretty good schools and have a nice career coaching the game...with his 15 million.

More like 20+m

 

[IAStubborn]

Whoa - the Johnny Orr situation was unique. After losing in the '76 title game to Indiana, Orr's next four years at Michigan were disappointing. There was the big upset by North Carolina-Charlotte in the Elite Eight in 1977; then his final three years in the Big Ten were 11-7, 8-10, and 8-10. Michigan simply didn't want to keep him anymore, because he wasn't winning. If he was, they would have matched or exceed ISU's offer.
Is there a similar situation out there in college football right now? I don't see one.

Texas and Charlie Strong, honestly though. We have a guy on staff thats done it. One of the few in the history of coaching. Why not give mangino a shot?

 

[IAStubborn]

I think Lou Holtz actually made the coaching graveyard remark about ISU. As others have eloquently stated, much has changed since Lou slobbered those words. First and foremost is facilities. Secondly is the sheer size of the university, the prosperity of its alumni base and its support of athletics.

Most importantly, just about every D1 coach signs a 5 year deal and gets something north of $1M for a base and with incentives and add-ons can get to the $1.5M to $1.75 range pretty easily. Granted that puts you in a prettty good tax bracket, but unless you are a complete moron the day you sign that contract you are set financially for life.

As a bonus, you are living in a low cost area with great schools and quality of life. Just because jerk off Chizik did us dirty doesn't mean there isn't a bright 30-40 year old who can't come in here and put up a .600 winning percentage over five years. If he gets poached by one of the big boys so be it. I will finally get to see some competent football.

Wasn't he a grad assistant at Iowa?