Coaching Graveyard theory.....
- Thread starter Beyerball
- Start date
It's not a graveyard. It's just a place where you can't win. Tom Herman kind of puts the "graveyard" thing to rest.
Per the last paragraph in my post (which was in response to a post of geography/amenities of Ames with regard to attractiveness for coaches/recruits), does Iowa City have some kind of geographic/amenity advantage over Ames that would explain why the Hawks have had more recent FB success than ISU?
Pryor to Hayden Fry turning around Iowa, Iowa had something like 19 consecutive non-winning seasons, so it's not like they were a bastion of FB success.
I would say that Illinois is more of a midwest recruiter which would make flights cheaper and drive times shorter, OU while 35 minutes from OKC airport is only 3/4 hours from Dallas by car and 30 from Dallas by plane so it is cheaper for the recruits.
The point I was trying to make is other schools OU, Mizzou, Nebraska can get by with just bringing the recruits because their parent(s) have heard of those schools and seen them in abundance on TV. ISU on the other hand the parent(s) may not know much about so it is a recruiting advantage to get the parent(s) here with the recruit sell them on all the things tha make ISU/Ames great that the recruit themselves might not care about. To steal on Deandre Kane's mom "Focus Town", a 17/18 year old recruit might not care about low crime rate, great engneering school, a welcoming environment but their parent(s) most likely will and maybe their parent(s) sway their decision.
For example my stepdaughter picked Arizona State becuase 1) it was good for her major and 2) the warm weather, but when we went to orientation and pre-acceptance visits my wife's main concern was crime and making sure my daughter was safe which a 17/18 year old isn't really concerned with.
That doesn't matter. The only "culture" that matters is what's going on within the football program; the meeting rooms, practice field, weight rooms, etc. Snyder built KSU without the fans expecting anything. Harbaugh at Stanford, took over maybe the worst P5 program in the country at the time. He built them into a national bully that just pummeled teams. All with a very apathetic fan base...that sure didn't expect much.
The isue is kids commit early now and since they can't take an official until the fall of their senior year most kidshave already visited the school they commit to before the official. I took it as if we were right by a major airport maybe we could get a few to book a cheap flight and come in on their dime but having a small airport 45 miles from campus means expensive flight plus renting a car. Thats a lot for a family. We don't have the brand to get them without get to them on campus 9/10. Basketball is much more fair in this regard.
While I don't disagree with you in that most schools outside of TX, FL, and CA have a similar issue with regard to logistics, it seems the issue may be more due to the fact that the parents of many of these children have a hard time being able to afford tagging along on these recruiting visits with their children. Thus, while the prospective student-athlete can take up to 5 official visits, the parents may not be able to afford to tag along on each official visit. Consequently, a parent that has to choose a subset of official visit schools to attend with their child probably won't have ISU high on that list due to many of the factors that have been listed in this thread.
Attitude and expectation surely does matter. And, for the record, I said fans AND university in my post, which squarely includes the football program. Lastly, if you think Snyder revived KSU absent the rest of the university (fans included)...well, I disagree. Absent fan support, which includes donors, stadium additions, etc....the culture doesn't change.
Perhaps not to you....and perhaps not with those exact words, but yes, listen deeper. It's out there.
Head coaching graveyard. Our list of assistants to go on to epic careers is well documented and I assume Tom will be yet another one.
Since this turned into a how do we compete for recruits thread...the Airport excuse is complete crap. Come on. Has very little to do with why a kid would or would not come here. First off...Half of Iowa roster is from In state kids...half of our roster is from in state kids....yet Iowa has been to a couple BCS bowls and generally gets to bowls every year. It's literally 2 hours east. When Mccarney was here he was generally beating Kirk or at least equaling him for in state kids. Lately CPR has been getting crushed in state IMO. We lose far too many kids from this state not just to Iowa but to other teams as well. Back to the Airport excuse. I get that it costs parents money to travel but the cost of flying to DSM is not that much greater than flying into a lot of other areas. This isn't Fargo.
The 2nd half of that quote on tv about the airports was that Iowa High School football players are not very good at football. Just for context.
And I'm totally on board with this as being a great reason why we can't expect to compete with schools like UT or OU year in and year out. Where this falls apart is explaining why we are losing to schools like UNI, NDSU, Tulsa, and Toledo? Do they have better airport access than we do? Do they have better brand recognition with parents to leverage in recruiting? Nope. Neither does KU (at least for football), or Mizzou prior to the Pinkel resurgence. And if Ames is a remote P5 outpost, then Manhattan KS is on the freaking moon.
There are a laundry list of reasons why we won't ever be a regular championship contender in this league, and honestly I think most of the fan base accepts that. My goals right now would be .500 football and sustained mediocrity. And that is where I am having a tough time figuring out what hurdles we have to getting there that can't be overcome with the right staff and the right plan. The travel situation to Ames shouldn't be too bad for that, nor is our budget, nor is our tradition, nor is the local recruiting base. I'm really just looking for a team that can go 3-0 vs FCS, mid-major, KU, and then 3-6 against the rest of the schedule to make a bowl. With the resources we put into the football program, that should be doable.
It's almost 100% the coach that matters. Look what happens at the "big-time schools with plenty of "attitude and expectations" - and facilities - when they hire the wrong coach. Off the top of my head:
Alabama when they hired Mike Shula.
Michigan with the last two hires prior to Harbaugh.
Notre Dame with Weiss.
Florida with Muschamp.
USC with their HC hires prior to Carroll.
OU with John Blake.
Texas now.
It goes on and on. You can have EVERYTHING - but if you hire the wrong coach, it doesn't matter.
Its not always going to be a dealbreaker, but in certain cases it can be a great disadvantage. Why is that so hard to understand? Take the explanation for what it is, it makes sense.
