Can anyone explain our philosophy on fair catching PUNTS inside the 10?

[cycloneworld]

I think Milton should have taken that return after the safety. I realize he was going with the safe option to get ball at 25 but I think he would have gotten much further up field. I guess I also understand though it might not have been worth the risk of fumbling.

The game was FAR from sealed at that point. It sure looked like Milton could get at least 20-30 more yards on the return. And our team is proven not to be a fumble-prone team. I get it but Campbell was very conservative all game but especially late (except for the deep ball to Butler late). Im sure that’s the way he wants it.

 

[clonedude]

Conservative coaching would be "follow the basic football rule at all times, even if you think you've got a reason not to." Not, "fair catch it at the 4, that's conservative." That's actually stupid coaching if it is the case.

Now for the freshman thing. "Hey Milton, stand at the 10. If it even looks like you need to raise your arms to catch it, run away and yell like heck to get everyone else away too. And if you catch it inside the 10 again, you'll be playing 100% of your downs on offense (which we really appreciate.) Got it?" That should take care of it.

Freshmen are not stupid, they've already played at least 4 years, if not 8 years, of football and know a lot of football rules of thumb. This is one of them and they shouldn't even have to be told. However, they should be able to be told once and follow it every time!

Please, someone that has returned punts, tell me it isn't this simple.

Exactly. It’s possible that fair catch at the 4 cost us 7 points. Touchback, and we have the ball at the 25. If their 2 defenders down it at the 1, we are likely running it twice or three times to get breathing room and avoid what happened.

What is the positive about fair catching it on the 4 yd line? Virtually nothing. Yes, there's a small chance it actually gets downed inside the 4, but it's only a couple yds difference.

If you let it go and run away, by far the biggest odds are that it goes into the endzone or hits the ground and bounces backwards which would give us better field position than the 4. Also, fielding it risks a fumble too, which is very scary. And even worse than all of that, what if a TT player doesn't see the fair catch hand wave and drills Milton and injures him?

Almost nothing good comes from fair catching it.

 

[cyrocksmypants]

Our ST has been terrible all year. And not just our punt return game or FG/Punt protection.

I'd also like to know what Corey Dunn's punt averages are when he uses the "rugby" style punt vs the traditional method. It seems to me like he's been WAY better at the traditional method, but I don't know if the stats would prove that out or not?

I just know that his "rugby" style punts have usually been terrible. I don't understand why we feel the need to do those?

And yesterday I think he used the "rugby" style punt all day if I'm not mistaken?

I think Dunn was instructed to go rugby this game after the blocked punt to try to get some separation. TT was having their way with our oline all game on punts and kicks, and I think it was more a safety precaution. Better to get 35-40 on a rugby kick than another blocked one.

 

[clonedude]

I think Dunn was instructed to go rugby this game after the blocked punt to try to get some separation. TT was having their way with our oline all game on punts and kicks, and I think it was more a safety precaution. Better to get 35-40 on a rugby kick than another blocked one.

Rugby style punts get blocked less? I didn't realize that? What is the logic behind that? I'm serious, I wasn't aware of that?

 

[CloneIce]

The punt fair catch at the four was awful. Make them hope for a good bounce and make a play, the odds were it would’ve been a touchback. Gotta stop those fair catches it’s bad strategy.

The fair catchafter the safety was overly conservative in my opinion.

 

[cyrocksmypants]

My biggest special teams concerns are: why is every team we’re playing getting such tremendous penetration on kicks (the obvious answer is that our oline just isn’t very good) and why are so many kickoffs being kicked out of bounds? We’ve had at least four do that this season, and that’s one of those penalties that should never happen, like a delay of game after a timeout.

 

[cyrocksmypants]

Rugby style punts get blocked less? I didn't realize that? What is the logic behind that? I'm serious, I wasn't aware of that?

If the pressure is continuously coming up the middle, like it was, yeah, a rugby kick would get blocked less because you’re moving the kick away from the pressure.

 

[burn587]

What is the positive about fair catching it on the 4 yd line? Virtually nothing. Yes, there's a small chance it actually gets downed inside the 4, but it's only a couple yds difference.

If you let it go and run away, by far the biggest odds are that it goes into the endzone or hits the ground and bounces backwards which would give us better field position than the 4. Also, fielding it risks a fumble too, which is very scary. And even worse than all of that, what if a TT player doesn't see the fair catch hand wave and drills Milton and injures him?

Almost nothing good comes from fair catching it.

Tech had a very high chance of downing it at the 1. They had at least 4 guys down there and one was standing at the goal line ready to catch it or stop it from going down to the end zone. I tend to agree that you let it go and hopefully it takes a weird bounce but given how good tech’s punt unit was it wouldn’t surprise me if they had talked about that very situation in preparation for the game.

 

[FinalFourCy]

My biggest special teams concerns are: why is every team we’re playing getting such tremendous penetration on kicks (the obvious answer is that our oline just isn’t very good) and why are so many kickoffs being kicked out of bounds? We’ve had at least four do that this season, and that’s one of those penalties that should never happen, like a delay of game after a timeout.

I’d guess it’s because they know we’re close to the vest and will not fake, but many of these aren’t even due to the opposition selling out for the block.

 

[CloneIce]

I have a lot of very critical things to say about our special teams coach, if we have one at all. But the fair catch on the kickoff was the right thing to do. It was tarique vs 10 unblocked guys. He was on the 10 yard line and they were on the 35 when he caught it!

Best case scenario, he gets to the 25 and then annihilated and potentially injured

Why weren’t we blocking them?

 

[3TrueFans]

Why weren’t we blocking them?

Because we were fair catching the kick anyways and so we were defending a potential onside kick most likely.

 

[Knownothing]

The kickoff fair catch was totally stupid. He had a long return a hard of him. It worked out at the end but geesh

 

[clonedude]

Tech had a very high chance of downing it at the 1. They had at least 4 guys down there and one was standing at the goal line ready to catch it or stop it from going down to the end zone. I tend to agree that you let it go and hopefully it takes a weird bounce but given how good tech’s punt unit was it wouldn’t surprise me if they had talked about that very situation in preparation for the game.

Sorry, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

I'd have to see the video again, but if TT did have that many guys down there, chances are they might have just caught the punt because you don't want to risk it hitting the ground and bounding into the endzone. So if TT catches it, we still get it on the 4.

If TT lets it bounce, it's anyone's guess as to where it goes. My guess is that there's probably a 90% chance or greater that it goes into the endzone or bounces backwards (giving us better field position).

 

[CloneIce]

Because we were fair catching the kick anyways and so we were defending a potential onside kick most likely.

I don’t think you can do an onside kick after a safety, can you?

 

[burn587]

The kickoff fair catch was totally stupid. He had a long return a hard of him. It worked out at the end but geesh

Agreed, I think in that situation you just run along the sideline and step out before the coverage gets there. Conservatively there’s at least 10-15 yards available doing that, and knowing tech another 15 for a late hit out of bounds.

 

[clonedude]

If the pressure is continuously coming up the middle, like it was, yeah, a rugby kick would get blocked less because you’re moving the kick away from the pressure.

Ok, that is a good point.

My thing with rugby punters is that they always run to the same side every time, correct? They'd have to. If you're right footed, you cannot run to the left.

So the opposition should just overload the rush from that side of the line where the punter is going to run IMO. I know they have blockers out front of the punter, but what if you brought 5 guys from that side or something? Is that even possible?

 

[SCarolinaCy]

That’s just as frustrating to me, especially when it was a field position game for stretches.

Frankly just embarrassing special teams coaching and execution today. They’ll mostly get a pass from the press/fans because they won but hopefully today was a wake up call.

Too answer the OP’s question the only advantage to catching it at the 4 is that you don’t get it at the 3. That one specifically has to be a lack of field awareness by Milton, no one is coaching returners to fair catch a ball inside the 5.

Coaching. His job to remind players every time they take the field if necessary. Whst happened to DETAILS?

 

[clonedude]

I don’t think you can do an onside kick after a safety, can you?

I wouldn't see why not?

Everything else aside, that was one helluva kick by TT after the safety.

 

[3TrueFans]

I don’t think you can do an onside kick after a safety, can you?

Sure you can.

 

[Cyclonetrombone]

Look up our special teams coach.... He has no previous real coordinator experience. It is painfully obvious they brought over one of their bros from Toledo and likely should have a real coach there. This year we have Campbell as a first year OC and Joe as a first year Special team corridinator. We've all seen weird play call from both that someone with experience wouldn't have made. I know we are winning but it feels like at time we are doing it inspite of special teams and offense. That will bite us in the rear eventually because even as great as this D is. It isnt perfect. This is a situation the vampire wizard of Manhattan will beat us in.