Behind Enemy Lines: Big 12

[Jsievers24]

If you never had Fred then you never would have had Georges. Think about that for a minute you stupid *****

I'm not wishing we never had Fred. Georges is my favorite Cyclone of all time. I'm ****** Fred left in the manner he did. Don't take it so personal. I lost some respect for Fred when he left and the more I learn about what is happening with this team the more respect I lose for him. People who defended Fred for leaving such a good team behind said "He did it so the new coach could have a boost" when that has not ended up being that true. I wish Fred would have stayed one more year to see this through. Now it looks as if he left running because he was sick of babysitting certain players.

*Edit - I'm also upset and frustrated that Georges has to deal with all of this in his senior year. If Fred was here, this wouldn't be happening.

 

[jsb]

1. Fred is an elite coach and what he did worked. I have no problem with how he ran the program. It would have been nice had he actually liked the job and stayed with the job. There will never be a more 'Iowa State' thing than that.

2. I suspect the truth about McKay last year isn't quite as bad as it sounds when you read that story, but we've seen enough this year to assume there's probably a lot of truth to it.

3. But.....Fred leaving when he did really screwed the program over. It's unfair for the players to have to adjust to a coach who was basically as magician at making things work to a mere mortal coach. It's unfair to Prohm. By all accounts, he's tried to let the little things go. He's said openly that he's doing things that he normally wouldn't because the players deserve to have things be similar. But I can understand him wanting the players to, I don't know, practice consistently. That's a perfectly valid demand. And, lets be clear, most of the players have at least somewhat bought in. They may not like it, but they are doing what they have to.

4. We were fed a line of ******** from those that were trying to protect Fred's image last spring that him leaving last year was the best thing for the program. That's what makes me the most mad. It wasn't the best thing for the program. It was the best thing for Fred. The players would have been far better off with one more year of Fred. And the new coach would have been far better off with less players who could compare how good things were with the last guy. I realize that TJ was promised/assumed to be the next coach. But....as good as everyone assumes TJ is, I'm pretty sure that he would need to require the guys to practice as well.

5. The comparisons of Prohm to McDermott are ignorant and silly at this point.

 

[Wesley]

Does McKay think he can get to the NBA without practicing? What a ******* ***** *** *****.

Fsam

 

[Wesley]

1. Fred is an elite coach and what he did worked. I have no problem with how he ran the program. It would have been nice had he actually liked the job and stayed with the job. There will never be a more 'Iowa State' thing than that. 2. I suspect the truth about McKay last year isn't quite as bad as it sounds when you read that story, but we've seen enough this year to assume there's probably a lot of truth to it. 3. But.....Fred leaving when he did really screwed the program over. It's unfair for the players to have to adjust to a coach who was basically as magician at making things work to a mere mortal coach. It's unfair to Prohm. By all accounts, he's tried to let the little things go. He's said openly that he's doing things that he normally wouldn't because the players deserve to have things be similar. But I can understand him wanting the players to, I don't know, practice consistently. That's a perfectly valid demand. And, lets be clear, most of the players have at least somewhat bought in. They may not like it, but they are doing what they have to. 4. We were fed a line of ******** from those that were trying to protect Fred's image last spring that him leaving last year was the best thing for the program. That's what makes me the most mad. It wasn't the best thing for the program. It was the best thing for Fred. The players would have been far better off with one more year of Fred. And the new coach would have been far better off with less players who could compare how good things were with the last guy. I realize that TJ was promised/assumed to be the next coach. But....as good as everyone assumes TJ is, I'm pretty sure that he would need to require the guys to practice as well. 5. The comparisons of Prohm to McDermott are ignorant and silly at this point.

McDump was worth fifteen wins a year.

 

[CYphyllis]

You'd think with all the time Fred saved by not bothering to recruit he'd at least be able to make sure everyone was actually practicing.

 

[Rural]

How much do you want to bet one of the anonymous sources is Bill Self? You don't think he asked Fred what was up with Jameel the last time they visited?

The longer this season goes on, the more respect I gain for Steve Prohm. He is trying to set a foundation of discipline and effort that Fred neglected to. Fred got away with it for a little while, when he had guys like Melvin Ejim in the program. But last year his "let them be" philosophy bit us (BDJ and McKay) and led directly to UAB.

..........and out the door.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

Prohm is old school discipline. Hoiberg didn't seem to care if you kept your own ship in check. Seemed to me Fred gave you the responisbility of looking out for your own future, meaning if you screw up, well bye then. He left it up to the players to manage, which is why players like Ejim, Long, Hogue are so important in his system because someone needs to keep the team together. Fred just expected that stuff. It was part of the total package.

 

[GeorgesFan]

I'm not wishing we never had Fred. Georges is my favorite Cyclone of all time. I'm ****** Fred left in the manner he did. Don't take it so personal. I lost some respect for Fred when he left and the more I learn about what is happening with this team the more respect I lose for him. People who defended Fred for leaving such a good team behind said "He did it so the new coach could have a boost" when that has not ended up being that true. I wish Fred would have stayed one more year to see this through. Now it looks as if he left running because he was sick of babysitting certain players.

*Edit - I'm also upset and frustrated that Georges has to deal with all of this in his senior year. If Fred was here, this wouldn't be happening.

Everyone needs to get over it! Fred did not owe any of you anything, including Georges. He made a career decision that was best for him. As we all should do when making career decisions. He informed his employer once he had a job offer. That is the way life works. I am so sick of all the whining and Fred bashing. Be grateful and gracious and stop looking for a scapegoat every time something does not go your way. I'm not just referring to you but all of the Fred bashers and whiners. How long will it take everyone to just move on? I am sure some never will. I will just feel sorry for those people because they will never be happy.

 

[allfourcy]

I would love to have an off-the-record conversation with hoiberg about the royce white year and how he managed guys like allen, white, booker and lucious (his redshirt year) at the same time. I've heard a few stories about white that definitely weren't flattering.

I'll say it again...assistants/managers/you name it ..also had a lot to keep our program running smoothly. They earned their keep, imo.

 

[CYphyllis]

Everyone needs to get over it! Fred did not owe any of you anything, including Georges. He made a career decision that was best for him. As we all should do when making career decisions. He informed his employer once he had a job offer. That is the way life works. I am so sick of all the whining and Fred bashing. Be grateful and gracious and stop looking for a scapegoat every time something does not go your way. I'm not just referring to you but all of the Fred bashers and whiners. How long will it take everyone to just move on? I am sure some never will. I will just feel sorry for those people because they will never be happy.

You don't understand. It isn't about basketball at all, it's about proving everyone else right. Those of us that have grown up in the ISU community have always heard nothing but ISU being considered a stepping stone. Just not good enough to keep anyone with any talent around for long. Fred knew that better than anyone and he knew exactly what that meant to the community and he turned his back and walked out anyways.

That will fester for many people around here for a long time and it's not something that many of us are just going to get over any time soon. You're right that Fred didn't owe anyone, but in turn no one owes him their undying goddamn gratitude either.

 

[GeorgesFan]

1. Fred is an elite coach and what he did worked. I have no problem with how he ran the program. It would have been nice had he actually liked the job and stayed with the job. There will never be a more 'Iowa State' thing than that.

2. I suspect the truth about McKay last year isn't quite as bad as it sounds when you read that story, but we've seen enough this year to assume there's probably a lot of truth to it.

3. But.....Fred leaving when he did really screwed the program over. It's unfair for the players to have to adjust to a coach who was basically as magician at making things work to a mere mortal coach. It's unfair to Prohm. By all accounts, he's tried to let the little things go. He's said openly that he's doing things that he normally wouldn't because the players deserve to have things be similar. But I can understand him wanting the players to, I don't know, practice consistently. That's a perfectly valid demand. And, lets be clear, most of the players have at least somewhat bought in. They may not like it, but they are doing what they have to.

4. We were fed a line of ******** from those that were trying to protect Fred's image last spring that him leaving last year was the best thing for the program. That's what makes me the most mad. It wasn't the best thing for the program. It was the best thing for Fred. The players would have been far better off with one more year of Fred. And the new coach would have been far better off with less players who could compare how good things were with the last guy. I realize that TJ was promised/assumed to be the next coach. But....as good as everyone assumes TJ is, I'm pretty sure that he would need to require the guys to practice as well.

5. The comparisons of Prohm to McDermott are ignorant and silly at this point.

NEWS FLASH...Life isn't fair!

 

[GeorgesFan]

You don't understand. It isn't about basketball at all, it's about proving everyone else right. Those of us that have grown up in the ISU community have always heard nothing but ISU being considered a stepping stone. Just not good enough to keep anyone with any talent around for long. Fred knew that better than anyone and he knew exactly what that meant to the community and he turned his back and walked out anyways.

That will fester for many people around here for a long time and it's not something that many of us are just going to get over any time soon. You're right that Fred didn't owe anyone, but in turn no one owes him their undying goddamn gratitude either.

That's the difference in the way people look at life I guess. Don't be sad that it's over, be grateful that it occurred at all. Fred left ISU for the freaking NBA. I can tell you from my perspective that I hope Georges never becomes a basketball coach. It is not the life that I would choose for him. But, of course, it won't be mine to make.

 

[jsb]

NEWS FLASH...Life isn't fair!

You don't have to tell us that!

 

[allfourcy]

You don't understand. It isn't about basketball at all, it's about proving everyone else right. Those of us that have grown up in the ISU community have always heard nothing but ISU being considered a stepping stone. Just not good enough to keep anyone with any talent around for long. Fred knew that better than anyone and he knew exactly what that meant to the community and he turned his back and walked out anyways.

That will fester for many people around here for a long time and it's not something that many of us are just going to get over any time soon. You're right that Fred didn't owe anyone, but in turn no one owes him their undying goddamn gratitude either.

Georgesfan is right. Life has lots of adversity and somewhat unfair happenings, just like a basketball game does. Its how you respond and handle the tough times. I've been bummed as much as anyone at the timing and unfortunate roster shortage, BUT have nothing but praise for Fred in what he brought back to Hilton and ISU. He purely made a business decision that most all successful people wouldn't have turned down. Losing 30 games in the NBA still gets you in the playoffs and while no coach enjoys losing, l don't think you feel like you've let your hometown, family, and friends down like he felt with a loss here. None of us can live in another person's shoes. Now.. on to the present and future.

 

[CycloneErik]

You don't have to tell us that!

Get past the jilted lover thing. It was old the day Fred left. It's pathetic now.

 

[CYphyllis]

That's the difference in the way people look at life I guess. Don't be sad that it's over, be grateful that it occurred at all. Fred left ISU for the freaking NBA. I can tell you from my perspective that I hope Georges never becomes a basketball coach. It is not the life that I would choose for him. But, of course, it won't be mine to make.

It has nothing to do with perspective or how you generally look at life. It's simply identifying a situation for what it is.

 

[cyfanatic13]

All things considered, I think Prohm's done a heck of a job so far. My only gripe would be some subbing patterns. It'll be a lot easier to say if he's a good coach or not in the next few years after he gets his guys in the program. People are just starting to figure out that Fred didn't have many rules and are shocked that a guy with a different philosophy had/is having some growing pains with players that were used to Fred's style. I'm assuming it's the same people that blame Prohm for our defense and rebounding being bad when it was known even while Fred was here that we hardly practiced either of those at all.

 

[SerenityNow]

Get past the jilted lover thing. It was old the day Fred left. It's pathetic now.

Ignore is your friend. My browsing is so much more drama free now.

 

[jkclone]

All things considered, I think Prohm's done a heck of a job so far. My only gripe would be some subbing patterns. It'll be a lot easier to say if he's a good coach or not in the next few years after he gets his guys in the program. People are just starting to figure out that Fred didn't have many rules and are shocked that a guy with a different philosophy had/is having some growing pains with players that were used to Fred's style. I'm assuming it's the same people that blame Prohm for our defense and rebounding being bad when it was known even while Fred was here that we hardly practiced either of those at all.

I have no problem with having a different style of coaching. Heck I would probably be more like a Eustachy Huggins type of coach. The problem is one of the factors of him being hired was his ability to succeed this year. It is fair to judge him some on this year. No one is saying he had to come I say one and be best friends with them but he does have to figure out how to work with them this year.

 

[jbhtexas]

How long will it take everyone to just move on? I am sure some never will.

Well, there's probably going to be some big-time regression next season, when the full brunt of Hoiberg's 2-year recruiting hiatus hits the floor. Not sure if you will still be following ISU MBB then. Maybe Prohm can work a miracle.