Again, I ask...

[jdoggivjc]

The OP is just a ray of sunshine, isn't he?

I've often said most of this year one of the worst things CPR could have done was to have had the season he had last year - coming completely out of the blue, going 7-6, and winning a bowl game in his first season with a group of players that would be jealous of the of the talent and comraderie that the Bad News Bears had with one another. It doesn't help him out any that the schedule this year is at the very least top 5 most difficult in the nation, if not the most difficult. And yet people still expected to win at least 8 games.

CPR is coaching players that have been playing 3 different systems in 5 years - very difficult to succeed when you have to learn a completely different system every other year. Not to mention CPR doesn't yet have the players that fit HIS system. Makes it even more difficult to win.

And we're not going to just be able to start landing the 4* and 5* recruits starting next year, either. If ISU ever wants any shot of landing that caliber of a player, CPR is going to have to take a page out of Ferentz's book and prove he can develop and win with the 2*, 3*, and walk-ons before he's able to convince the better recruits to come to Ames. The irony - CPR is already ahead of where Ferentz was when he started. CPR is staring at a 10-10 record after his first 20 games. Ferentz was 2-18 after his first 20 games, and didn't have his first winning season and bowl win until year 3.

Let's face it - it's not easy to coach here. It's extremely difficult to coach here, and it's even more difficult to recruit here, especially when you have Texas and Oklahoma schools to compete with. It takes a special breed not only to coach here, but to succeed here. You have to WANT to coach here. And CPR, by all indications, wants to be here for a LONG time.

 

[cyhiphopp]

Can we sticky this thread? That way the same people could post the same things after EVERY SINGLE loss of the season.

It would be a very convenient place to vent abotu how our coachign staff sucks and our QB is horrible and how there's no way we should ever lose to (insert most recent team played here).

We don't know how GOOD CPR is at this point, but you don't know how gooda college coach is until you've seen his recruits play for multiple seasons.

I firmly believe that CPR is one of the best possible coaches we could ahve during this rebuilding phase of our program. He is passionate, actually want to be here, has solid coaching ability, and has brought in recruits who are already playing solid minutes.

Right now the status of this program is less about how GOOD CPR is and about how BAD the program was when he got here.


Personally, I think that if you can't handle the rebuilding phase, then go jump on the Hawk bandwagon. Its much more convenient to root for a team that isn't rebuilding. You can fit in and get high fives from the rest of the black and gold lemmings.

 

[jbhtexas]

Its not about X's and O's its about the jimmys and Joes...I heard this from someone on ESPN yesterday, and its VERY true.

Paul Rhoads will need to recruit decent players or else it doesn't matter how good of a coach he is.

We look like an FCS team physically...

Unless your team is loaded with 4* and 5* recruits, it is very much about X's and O's. ISU is not going to be loaded with 4* and 5* recruits anytime soon, so as mentioned above, CPR is going to have to "coach up" what recruits he can get and find some ways to consistently scratch out 6-7 regular season wins. Once that happens, it will be easier to get the 4* "jimmys and joes"...

 

[cyhiphopp]

Unless your team is loaded with 4* and 5* recruits, it is very much about X's and O's. ISU is not going to be loaded with 4* and 5* recruits anytime soon, so as mentioned above, CPR is going to have to "coach up" what recruits he can get and find some ways to consistently scratch out 6-7 regular season wins. Once that happens, it will be easier to get the 4* "jimmys and joes"...

Please ignore CloneinOregon.

I really don't want to get into another discussion about all of the 4 star recruits CPR and his staff should be getting right now.

 

[CycloneErik]

The OP is just a ray of sunshine, isn't he?

I've often said most of this year one of the worst things CPR could have done was to have had the season he had last year - coming completely out of the blue, going 7-6, and winning a bowl game in his first season with a group of players that would be jealous of the of the talent and comraderie that the Bad News Bears had with one another. It doesn't help him out any that the schedule this year is at the very least top 5 most difficult in the nation, if not the most difficult. And yet people still expected to win at least 8 games.

CPR is coaching players that have been playing 3 different systems in 5 years - very difficult to succeed when you have to learn a completely different system every other year. Not to mention CPR doesn't yet have the players that fit HIS system. Makes it even more difficult to win.

And we're not going to just be able to start landing the 4* and 5* recruits starting next year, either. If ISU ever wants any shot of landing that caliber of a player, CPR is going to have to take a page out of Ferentz's book and prove he can develop and win with the 2*, 3*, and walk-ons before he's able to convince the better recruits to come to Ames. The irony - CPR is already ahead of where Ferentz was when he started. CPR is staring at a 10-10 record after his first 20 games. Ferentz was 2-18 after his first 20 games, and didn't have his first winning season and bowl win until year 3.

Let's face it - it's not easy to coach here. It's extremely difficult to coach here, and it's even more difficult to recruit here, especially when you have Texas and Oklahoma schools to compete with. It takes a special breed not only to coach here, but to succeed here. You have to WANT to coach here. And CPR, by all indications, wants to be here for a LONG time.

Post of the season? This is good stuff.

 

[edr247]

The OP and those that agree with him are joking, right? I mean, be it far from me to stand up for ISU, but you all do realize that Iowa State has THE toughest schedule based on cumulative opposition, right? Not kinda sorta up there. The toughest one.
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2010/Internet/toughest%20schedule/fbs_9games_cumm.pdf

Of Iowa State's 2010 scheduled opponents, SEVEN are currently ranked in the top 25 (or at least receiving votes). FIVE have been or are currently in the top 10.

1. Iowa was at the time 9th and is currently 12th/13th in the polls, 15th in the BCS with a 5-1 record.
2. Kansas State was at the time unranked but is currently receiving votes in the polls and 22nd in the BCS with a 5-1 record.
3. Utah was ranked 11th when you played them and is now 9th (in the polls and BCS) with a 6-0 record.
4. Oklahoma was ranked 6th when you played them and is now 1st/3rd (1st in the BCS standings) with a 6-0 record.
5. Texas was 4th/5th in the standings but has made it's way back up to 22nd in the polls and 19th in the BCS with a 4-2 record.
6. Nebraska was as high as 5th in the standings but fell to 13th/14th in the polls and 16th in the BCS with a 5-1 record.
7. Missouri is currently ranked 16th/18th in the polls but 11th in the BCS with a 6-0 record.

If you want to fault Rhoads and Co for any of those losses, perhaps you can point to the KSU one. Other than that, only the most die-hard who is not just drinking the kool-aid but inhaling/ingesting/injecting it would have been upset Iowa State couldn't keep up with the likes of Utah or Oklahoma. Rhoads is barely through a season and a half with a team that isn't at the talent level of the teams above they've already faced, and is likely to be overmatched by some of the teams above they've yet to face. As somebody mentioned above, he's coaching guys who've been under some 3 different systems in the time they've been here.

Give the guy some time. Change for ISU isn't going to manifest itself within a couple years of hiring a new coaching staff. Unless when Rhoads was hired, was he like Tim Brewster, promising conference titles and BCS bowls within a few years.

 

[weR138]

The OP and those that agree with him are joking, right? I mean, be it far from me to stand up for ISU, but you all do realize that Iowa State has THE toughest schedule based on cumulative opposition, right? Not kinda sorta up there. The toughest one.
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2010/Internet/toughest schedule/fbs_9games_cumm.pdf

Of Iowa State's 2010 scheduled opponents, SEVEN are currently ranked in the top 25 (or at least receiving votes). FIVE have been or are currently in the top 10.

1. Iowa was at the time 9th and is currently 12th/13th in the polls, 15th in the BCS with a 5-1 record.
2. Kansas State was at the time unranked but is currently receiving votes in the polls and 22nd in the BCS with a 5-1 record.
3. Utah was ranked 11th when you played them and is now 9th (in the polls and BCS) with a 6-0 record.
4. Oklahoma was ranked 6th when you played them and is now 1st/3rd (1st in the BCS standings) with a 6-0 record.
5. Texas was 4th/5th in the standings but has made it's way back up to 22nd in the polls and 19th in the BCS with a 4-2 record.
6. Nebraska was as high as 5th in the standings but fell to 13th/14th in the polls and 16th in the BCS with a 5-1 record.
7. Missouri is currently ranked 16th/18th in the polls but 11th in the BCS with a 6-0 record.

If you want to fault Rhoads and Co for any of those losses, perhaps you can point to the KSU one. Other than that, only the most die-hard who is not just drinking the kool-aid but inhaling/ingesting/injecting it would have been upset Iowa State couldn't keep up with the likes of Utah or Oklahoma. Rhoads is barely through a season and a half with a team that isn't at the talent level of the teams above they've already faced, and is likely to be overmatched by some of the teams above they've yet to face. As somebody mentioned above, he's coaching guys who've been under some 3 different systems in the time they've been here.

Give the guy some time. Change for ISU isn't going to manifest itself within a couple years of hiring a new coaching staff. Unless when Rhoads was hired, was he like Tim Brewster, promising conference titles and BCS bowls within a few years.

No. They're just dumb****s.

 

[rebecacy]

Do we really know Paul Rhoads is a good D-1 head football coach?

The most appropriate answer has to be "we don't know yet because it is too soon to tell" --- the shine is off the apple however. If he ever gets us to a #5 ranking in the BCS, even mid-season, then you can say yes.

 

[MartyFine]

Do we really know Paul Rhoads is a good D-1 head football coach?

Yes, we can definitely infer that.

Same way we can tell what a complete tool you are.

 

[MartyFine]

Yeah I saw a lot of games last year. I saw us not beat anyone. Our best win was over a team that beat themselves. We shouldn't have been in a bowl game. And in that game we beat a terrible Minnesota team that as it turns out was months away from canning their coach.

I don't know that we have a good coach. I do know we have a passionate guy that I'm proud to say is my coach. And there is something to be said about that.

Only a complete moron could not see the improved tackling from Chizik's last year to CPR's first. That is coaching right there. You simply have not pointed out one instance where CPR's coaching is deficient.

 

[cyfanatic]

The most appropriate answer has to be "we don't know yet because it is too soon to tell" --- the shine is off the apple however.

That statement is the truth.

We don't know yet...it does interest me in that it seems that people who are critical of those who question CPR at this point defend their thoughts by saying it is only year two under the CPR regime. OK...if you are going to be critical of those who attack CPR because there is no or very little frame of reference...how can you be so confident in him with that same small frame of reference? It should work both ways...

I like CPR...but those who think he is the next Vince Lombardi just because he is the ISU coach makes me wonder why they have such blind faith in any coach...CPR or anyone? He might turn out to be the greatest coach in ISU history...or in two years there might be a lot of people calling for him to be fired. No one knows either way so why be so critical of others' opinions?

 

[cyhiphopp]

That statement is the truth.

We don't know yet...it does interest me in that it seems that people who are critical of those who question CPR at this point defend their thoughts by saying it is only year two under the CPR regime. OK...if you are going to be critical of those who attack CPR because there is no or very little frame of reference...how can you be so confident in him with that same small frame of reference? It should work both ways...

I like CPR...but those who think he is the next Vince Lombardi just because he is the ISU coach makes me wonder why they have such blind faith in any coach...CPR or anyone? He might turn out to be the greatest coach in ISU history...or in two years there might be a lot of people calling for him to be fired. No one knows either way so why be so critical of others' opinions?

One of the reasons I have more faith in CPR so far than I did in Chizik at this point is that, while we haven't lit the world on fire, we have showed some improvement. CPR and his staff took pretty much the same team that Chizik went 2-10 with and won 7 games. At this point it looks more like we are out-manned than we are out-coached.

I am also happy to see that some of CPRs recruits are playing already and playing pretty well. We just need more depth. Chizik brought in some good players, but he also tried to make a splash and tried to get a lot of JuCos to win right away. That caused the depth issues we have now. CPR seems to be willing to take some lumps and develop some talent, particularly in state talent.

On that note, CPR is the kind of coach that I think we need at ISU. Chizik has now shown that with SEC talent and high priced coordinators, he can win some games. He was not as good at developing lesser talent and hiring lesser known coordinators. He also, obviously, did not want to be here. CPR has hired coordinators who have actually had success at the D1 level. They are also focussing on developing talent and rebuilding for the future rather than trying to pull in as many JuCos as possible to build a resume with. He seems to have a qenuine passion for coaching at ISU (not to say that he would never leave).

This, in short, is why I have some faith in CPR and staff.

 

[jdoggivjc]

The most appropriate answer has to be "we don't know yet because it is too soon to tell" --- the shine is off the apple however. If he ever gets us to a #5 ranking in the BCS, even mid-season, then you can say yes.

You had a great post going - until you dropped in these gems. We knew we were going to get destroyed by Utah and Oklahoma going into the season. Far too many fans are taking those losses far too personally.

 

[CycloneErik]

The most appropriate answer has to be "we don't know yet because it is too soon to tell" --- the shine is off the apple however. If he ever gets us to a #5 ranking in the BCS, even mid-season, then you can say yes.

So the only way to know is by reaching #5? There are no other possible criteria?

Or is this another case of Chizik-love pouring out? He's not coming back.

 

[CloneINOregon]

Until we start recruiting D1 football players, we will continue to get our butts kicked.

 

[cyhiphopp]

The most appropriate answer has to be "we don't know yet because it is too soon to tell" --- the shine is off the apple however. If he ever gets us to a #5 ranking in the BCS, even mid-season, then you can say yes.

So you are saying Gene Chizik is absolutely a "good coach"? He has one of the highest prices OCs available and had a fully stocked team with a stud JuCo QB coming in to run his new OCs offense. Along with that OC he also has the money availabe to hire several coaches just to handle recruiting and pay them almost as much as a coordinator would get at ISU (not sure of the exact dollar amounts).
I know a lot of coaches who could win with that situation.

In spite of all of this, he still has some of the same coaching defficiencies he has at ISU, he just has better talent that can overcome his faults. Remember, he started out 5-0 last year before dropping 5 of his last 7 regular season games and beating only Ole Miss and Furman.

Auburn hasn't been that stellar this year either. I know because almost all of their games have been on TV. They squeeked by Miss St and Clemson by 3 points each, came from behind in teh 4th top beat S. Carolina, beat Kentucky by 3 and beat up on Arkansas after their QB went down early. The other two wins were against non-con patsies. The rest of their schedule is against #6 LSU at home, a 3-3 Ole Miss team on the road, Chatanooga!, a pretty bad Georgia team, and (hopefully) their annual beat down by Bama.
It's sad because LSU is the only thing between Auburn an being undefeated against Bama and I don't think LSU has been that impressive either.

All in all. I think Chizik has a tremendously good situation for himself at Auburn. I DON'T think that means he is a great coach.
I have a feeling that if Malzahn bolts anytime soon and the Chiz doesn't hire an equally good OC, then we could see what kind of coach he really is.


On top of all of that, Chizik showed almost no ability to build a program like ISU. He had an established program like Auburn fall into his lap. All he had to do was continue recruiting top flight athletes and bring in a great staff to call plays for him. That is the kind of coach he is. He is a CEO coach who manages talent and does well with good recruits. That is probably the main reason why his time at ISU was such an epic failure. He didn't know what to do when he didn't have a stable of 4 star athletes to play with and he wasn't here long enough to recruit his way out of that hole.



End rant (sorry, Chizik apologists bring this out of me and I dont really hate the guy all that much, I promise)

 

[cyhiphopp]

Until we start recruiting D1 football players, we will continue to get our butts kicked.

Until we have a few years to develop our recruits, and continue to recruit more athletes, we will continue to lose to teams who have top ten talent and have had the same systems in place for almost a decade. We will have opporunities to beat teams with equal, lesser, and slightly better talent than us though.

 

[cycub51]

Coaching can overcome SOME talent deficiency but not the kind of talent differences we have against the teams we have played. We play well against teams that can run circles around our guys.

I think if CPR starts to narrow that talent gap we will win a ton of football games but until that starts to happen blowouts will happen. So yes he is a good coach because he has shown he can beat teams with comparable talent levels. If you take talent out of the equation what's left becomes schemes and those schemes come from coaching and right now we are farther ahead in that department than ISU football has been in years.

 

[weR138]

Until we start recruiting D1 football players, we will continue to get our butts kicked.

Which ones are not D1 players? Name them.

 

[CYVADER]

Which ones are not D1 players? Name them.

the ones that aren't 4 and 5 star rated guys. cloneinoregon seems to think that there is an immense number of those kids available, and we should fill our roster with them

i've said it before and i'm going to say it again-there are roughly 20-25 5 star kids in the entire country every year. we aren't getting any.

there are roughly 300 4 star kids in the country every year. we are lucky to grab 1 of these.

there are 112 d-1 schools each with 85 schollies available. that is 9,520 roster slots to be filled. lose the 4 and 5 star guys and that leaves 9,200 to be filled with 1,2 and 3 star guys. it can be done and it is being done with that kind of talent.

filter it down to bcs teams-i think there are 65? with 85 schollies each? that is still 5,525 schollie athletes. take away the 4 and 5 stars(likely most all of those kids will end up at a bcs school) and you are left with 5,200 1, 2, and 3 star guys.

look at the numbers, then form an opinion. i'm tired of people expecting us to ever rake in a recruiting class full of 4 star guys-it will likely NEVER happen here. we have to get the right kids to fit our system that are a little under the radar and develop.