About the new logo, Johnny Orr, & Jack Trice

[goldmember]

Listen to the moonlight graham podcast, and you will be even more upset about this disaster of a logo.

 

[CyGuy5]

Listen to the moonlight graham podcast, and you will be even more upset about this disaster of a logo.

'

For someone that doesn't have the time to listen to it, what do I need to know?

 

[cybsball20]

Can you elaborate? - I guess I don't know what the do. In that case, all of these much improved mock-ups (Kagavi, amestoplease in post #136 need to be sent to them ASAP!)
local staff links: http://www.learfield.com/partner/iowa-state-cyclones/

Sometimes the only way forward is to stop and go backward!!

There was a Learfield guy out of Iowa City talking about how great it was to work on this project

 

[CYCLNST8]

There was a Learfield guy out of Iowa City talking about how great it was to work on this project

Hawkeye conspiracy. Now it makes sense...

 

[Redman97]

tried my best to mock up a matte helmet/matte face mask with chrome stripe and orrnado. View attachment 50493 View attachment 50494

Those are awesome.

 

[clonedude]

tried my best to mock up a matte helmet/matte face mask with chrome stripe and orrnado. View attachment 50493 View attachment 50494

Holy cow..... these are sweet. The only thing I would change is the facemask. I'd also make that the shiny chrome type look to match the logo and stripe, with only the helmet being matte finish.

But outside of that, these are spot on. In fact, I'd like to see us go with a chrome logo with the I-State logo too.

 

[Draf]

Excellent work on those. Don't know if I like it, but since it's "for fun," I've seen a lot worse ideas for sure. An example: A helmet logo I noticed about a week ago.

If it's not a pain, could you include gold helmet w/ cardinal logo, and gold-on-cardinal w/ gold facemask? Thanks (i like to see the color combo possibilities with a refined flat-mono logo).

cyclones500 — I just posted the helmet color combo you asked about in the New Uniform Thread

 

[Cyrealist]

Did you read the article? Did it not show that our current winning percentage is worse than that era? Also our entire history of football has a losing record.

Your argument is stupid. And exhausting. It's repeated over and over. And it's stupid and exhausting each time it's said.

There are two reasons to update a logo. If the existing logo looks date or to establish a new identity for a program that doesn't have a winning tradition. The "Orr-nado" is dated stylistically, in my opinion, and is associated with a time that was bad for our football program. We not only were losing, we were put on suspension which led to more losing. The unwillingness of the administration to invest in the program in the '80's and '90's made us a joke and an embarrassment. Remember that tattered, worn out artificial turf? The I-State has a timeless nature that can endure good times and bad and not necessarily be associated with a particular era. The new tornado is stylistically more modern than the "Orr-nado" and doesn't carry the baggage of the Criner era.

 

[MartyFine]

I understand the sentiment here, I really do, but I think the AD should be applauded for trying something different. Rigidly adhering to only the I-STATE logo was just not going to work out in the long run. Not every new idea can be a winner, but would love to see more things.



I'll settle for them acknowledging Jack Trice's number.



This kind of thinking is why I wrote the post.

Jim Walden was coach for eight years after Criner and despite an unsupportive administration, he still finished with a cumulative winning percentage of .339, which pretty much is the same as the current I-State logo. I don't think anyone would blame Criner's actions in 1986 for Walden's 0-10 season in 1994.



Absolutely agree. Light gray is way to go.





Legally it's considered a derivative of an existing trademark and as such, Iowa State essentially owns the designs already.



I don't disagree. It's immediately a T in an oval, standing for Trice. If people want to know more about the backstory, then you can say it's inspired by the old ISC Circular A logo and the East Tech high school scarab logo, both from Jack's era. I wanted a nod to his high school days, since those were the days he was truly able to show what he could do without tragedy.

Everyone blames the administration in 1986 for ISU’s record in 1994

 

[CloneConer]

There are two reasons to update a logo. If the existing logo looks date or to establish a new identity for a program that doesn't have a winning tradition. The "Orr-nado" is dated stylistically, in my opinion, and is associated with a time that was bad for our football program. We not only were losing, we were put on suspension which led to more losing. The unwillingness of the administration to invest in the program in the '80's and '90's made us a joke and an embarrassment. Remember that tattered, worn out artificial turf? The I-State has a timeless nature that can endure good times and bad and not necessarily be associated with a particular era. The new tornado is stylistically more modern than the "Orr-nado" and doesn't carry the baggage of the Criner era.

I think most would agree with you on why a school would update a logo, but this isn't the case for ISU. We were just flat out not using a nickname logo right now. We couldn't update a current logo because we didn't have one. The administration had two choices... Use an old one or make a new one. You can't blame them for choosing to make a new one, but you'd hope that the logo is as good or better than the other choice.

And to reiterate a previous point... ISU has always had bad football teams, so who cares when we take logos from? A very small proportion of people seeing the logo will ever know or care what our record was when it came out. That's classic ISU overthinking. Just pick a design that looks the best.

 

[Kagavi]

There are two reasons to update a logo. If the existing logo looks date or to establish a new identity for a program that doesn't have a winning tradition. The "Orr-nado" is dated stylistically, in my opinion, and is associated with a time that was bad for our football program. We not only were losing, we were put on suspension which led to more losing. The unwillingness of the administration to invest in the program in the '80's and '90's made us a joke and an embarrassment. Remember that tattered, worn out artificial turf? The I-State has a timeless nature that can endure good times and bad and not necessarily be associated with a particular era. The new tornado is stylistically more modern than the "Orr-nado" and doesn't carry the baggage of the Criner era.

The I-State logo that debuted with a dated beveled scheme and "modern" font that is already a bit long in the tooth? The I-State logo associated with probation-loving Gene Chizik and Greg McDermott, which just about killed Hilton Magic?

The 1980s Orr Cyclone is indeed of its era and can stay there along with your memories. The updated version is 100% not dated stylistically, because it doesn't depend on any quirks, such as shadows, bevels, custom fonts, multiple colors, gradients, etc. A simple solid shape endures through millennia.

In constrast, the I-State logo DOES depend on design quirks, especially when it was first released. The solid and stencil versions currently being used more alleviate that a bit. As you said, the new cyclone is stylistically "more modern" but that's precisely the problem. If you think it is modern for today's era, that means 10 years from now, it will appear outdated. Yet another example of ISU releasing a "modern" logo, not a TIMELESS logo.

After the huge "penalty" of four scholarships being reduced, and a winning record in Criner's final, abbreviated season, Walden went on to post a winning and two near-winning seasons in three of his first four seasons. You easily shrug off the I-State logo belonging to one of the worst-performing decades of football ever, yet are fixated on the Orr Cyclone performance.

Everyone blames the administration in 1986 for ISU’s record in 1994

After Matt Campbell's quotes from yesterday when he referred to the historical adversity at Iowa State and how there's kind of a cloud, yet the cloud only goes away when you keep learning and growing and saying we are getting better on a daily basis. The team is continually trying to attack the defeatist mentality of the cloud.

When some are ready to give up on an updated timeless logo, simply because it had a past association with some bad football (and great basketball!), rather than growing and improving it as part of the journey, well that's the defeatist mentality Coach Campbell refers to. When will some Iowa State fans let go of the past? The constant references to nut cups and Criner and all that is tiresome.

 

[goldmember]

Agree, bad design is bad design regardless of wins and losses. I'm still holding out hope the AD recognizes their mistake and saves the program from this embarrassment. Stop pumping a dry well.

 

[t-noah]

There are two reasons to update a logo. If the existing logo looks date or to establish a new identity for a program that doesn't have a winning tradition. The "Orr-nado" is dated stylistically, in my opinion, and is associated with a time that was bad for our football program. We not only were losing, we were put on suspension which led to more losing. The unwillingness of the administration to invest in the program in the '80's and '90's made us a joke and an embarrassment. Remember that tattered, worn out artificial turf? The I-State has a timeless nature that can endure good times and bad and not necessarily be associated with a particular era. The new tornado is stylistically more modern than the "Orr-nado" and doesn't carry the baggage of the Criner era.

Your opinion that the new cyclone is better than the old is valid, it is your opinion. I don't think most of us agree. I personally thought it was OK when I first saw it (mostly because it is a cyclone and felt we needed that for our identity). But there is a better one out there already.

I think most would agree with you on why a school would update a logo, but this isn't the case for ISU. We were just flat out not using a nickname logo right now. We couldn't update a current logo because we didn't have one. The administration had two choices... Use an old one or make a new one. You can't blame them for choosing to make a new one, but you'd hope that the logo is as good or better than the other choice.

And to reiterate a previous point... ISU has always had bad football teams, so who cares when we take logos from? A very small proportion of people seeing the logo will ever know or care what our record was when it came out. That's classic ISU overthinking. Just pick a design that looks the best.

As CloneConer just pointed out, we are updating or getting back our 'cyclone' nickname logo, and for that I applaud them. We are the "Cyclones" and it just makes sense to have a working alt logo that signifies this.

I cannot remember a time where past coaching staffs (or administration) were so open to alternate uniform or logo looks, as this one. This is CMC and his vision, not the current AD, that is obvious to me. We may see multiple alt logos in the future.

 

[t-noah]

So now the question is: Which 'cyclone' nickname logo should we adopt? There may be more than one. For the next cyclone, I prefer the Criner-era one and will call it the OrrCyclone (or Orr-nado), as Kagavi alluded to recently. The argument that it was a bad era of football, no. Much of our past has been less than stellar. Besides, if we took the OrrCyclone, Orr-nado (whatever you call it), remove the Iowa State cursive of previous, it really is new and different yet historical at the same time. Allow the two-tone updated version from @amestoplease for some applications, keep most of the helmet and uniform applications straight monochromatic, per @Kagavi, will look better, classic, especially from distance. It's already there, use it. Something better comes up, fine. But this is good and has a lot of support.

The latest stuff from Kagavi, (and amestoplease ), or slightly trimmed edges like these , will look so much better than the old '83-86 version here .

 

[Cyrealist]

After the huge "penalty" of four scholarships being reduced, and a winning record in Criner's final, abbreviated season, Walden went on to post a winning and two near-winning seasons in three of his first four seasons. You easily shrug off the I-State logo belonging to one of the worst-performing decades of football ever, yet are fixated on the Orr Cyclone performance.

The penalty was much worse than that since a lot of recruits decommitted and some players left. The NCAA had a 25-plater per year limit, so we were YEARS getting back to full strength. As an aside, the lovely Tom Osbourne supported the 25-player limit "because we have to have cost-saving". He goes on the *sshole pile along with Hayden Fry and Brett Bielema. Walden's ultimate failure was because of a lack of recruiting, which was partlyhis failure and partly due to the fact that the administration didn't come through on promised facility upgrades. In fact, the quality of our facilities went down significantly during that era.
Anyway, I see the I-State logo as a timeless thing that will endure over time. A secondary logo can be more tied to the aesthetics of the day. I think the Orr-clone looks dated, and that increases the tie to the previous era. On the other hand, I thought the I State looked great yesterday. I think Washington State's logo looks like an escapee from the '70's, but I'm sure they're not all that concerned.

 

[Kagavi]

One final bump ... felt like mocking up the Orr Cyclone on the photo of Lazard's game winner, along with the Trice Memorial Oval. The game took place between anniversary of Jack's Minnesota game and death (Oct. 6 & 8).

Also, CW Iowa Live had a little piece on Jack Trice due to the anniversary. See it here:

http://www.weareiowa.com/cw-iowa-live/iowa-almanac-with-prof-jeff-stein-october-6/828599005

 

[Stewo]

One final bump ... felt like mocking up the Orr Cyclone on the photo of Lazard's game winner, along with the Trice Memorial Oval. The game took place between anniversary of Jack's Minnesota game and death (Oct. 6 & 8).

Also, CW Iowa Live had a little piece on Jack Trice due to the anniversary. See it here:

http://www.weareiowa.com/cw-iowa-live/iowa-almanac-with-prof-jeff-stein-october-6/828599005

Simple and beautiful.

 

[Draf]

Nice!

 

[t-noah]

One final bump ... felt like mocking up the Orr Cyclone on the photo of Lazard's game winner, along with the Trice Memorial Oval. The game took place between anniversary of Jack's Minnesota game and death (Oct. 6 & 8).

Also, CW Iowa Live had a little piece on Jack Trice due to the anniversary. See it here:

http://www.weareiowa.com/cw-iowa-live/iowa-almanac-with-prof-jeff-stein-october-6/828599005

Great job Joshua! Both look fantastic (the OrrCyclone, and the Trice Memorial Oval). Nothing Criner-like there. Please do this again the next time we wear Cardinal helmets, and especially if we ever debut a gold helmet.

 

[Lamoni]

Great thread here and great work Kagavi. I listened to the Moonlight Graham podcast on this as well and am ever more frustrated with this logo rollout.