Best Iowa State point guard

[Jer]

I 100% agree Tinsley has an argument for best ever ISU player... while at ISU. Just like Troy Davis is unquestionably Top 3 all time for football... while at ISU. That's why their helmet and basketball signatures were my first 2 ISU collectibles.

Haliburton didn't have quite the same ISU career as either, but his pro career is unquestionably going to be the best of any player in any sport coming out of ISU. Purdy might be the only other player in that same discussion when we look back 10 years from now.

I know you could argue for Hornacek or Fred in the NBA, but they don't match Haliburton in my mind or the possibility of what Purdy may end up being (a lot more variables there than Haliburton).

 

[NorthCyd]

The other guy has most wins, minutes, steals, and assists in ISU history though. Plenty of single game heroics and depending on definition of ball handler was possibly best ball handler in ncaa history statistically.

It’s a complex debate. A stat junky gives it to Morris easily, but as someone who was there I totally see Tinsley as well.

Apples to oranges though, since Monte was essentially a 4 year starter and Tinsley was here for two. Tinsley still holds the record for assists and steals in a season I believe.

 

[CyberJJJ]

No mention of the Roland Rocket in this thread?

 

[Halincandenza]

If it is just time at ISU it would be for me
Tinsley
Morris
Haliburton
Lipsey for now but he will pass Haliburton.

 

[Drew0311]

I 100% agree Tinsley has an argument for best ever ISU player... while at ISU. Just like Troy Davis is unquestionably Top 3 all time for football... while at ISU. That's why their helmet and basketball signatures were my first 2 ISU collectibles.

Haliburton didn't have quite the same ISU career as either, but his pro career is unquestionably going to be the best of any player in any sport coming out of ISU. Purdy might be the only other player in that same discussion when we look back 10 years from now.

I know you could argue for Hornacek or Fred in the NBA, but they don't match Haliburton in my mind or the possibility of what Purdy may end up being (a lot more variables there than Haliburton).

Purdy could make claim when he is done that he is the best ever Cyclone football pro and while he was in college at his position. Troy will never be surpassed at Iowa State as far as his college playing days.

 

[Drew0311]

If it is just time at ISU it would be for me
Tinsley
Morris
Haliburton
Lipsey for now but he will pass Haliburton.

We almost have to do the "While he is at Iowa State" part or this thread would just be me making a post that Haliburton is the Goat and everyone would be like "Ummm Yeah tell us something we don't know".

 

[NorthCyd]

No mention of the Roland Rocket in this thread?

Was he considered a point guard? I really have no idea. I know he was guard, an all-american, and was part of the team that beat Wilt. That's about it.

 

[Pharmacy99]

Tinsley was our best. Eustachy was 57-11 with Tinsley and 44-48 without him.

You can’t say that. He lost more than just Tinsley.

 

[Pharmacy99]

You can tell who the NBA nuts are on here when you see the arguments for Tyrese being the best at ISU. I absolutely love Tyrese and think is he an insane NBA player. However Tinsley is the best PG to have ever put on an ISU uniform, he was just on a different level as someone else mentioned earlier (the sleeping with the ball thing). The confidence you had watching him bring the ball up against even 2 or 3 defenders was second to none.

Look at Tyrese’s numbers at ISU. He was better than Tinsley at every important stats except win-loss

 

[HFCS]

Apples to oranges though, since Monte was essentially a 4 year starter and Tinsley was here for two. Tinsley still holds the record for assists and steals in a season I believe.

That's part of why it's a debate. I'm not really sure Tinsley was better senior to senior, junior to junior. It's really close.

We've had people in this thread saying Tinsley was a way better ball handler...there's an incredible case to be made that Monte was the best ball handler in NCAA history.

Senior pg stats:
Tinsley: 14.3 ppg, 6 apg, 2.5 steals, 3.8 TO
Monte: 16.4 ppg, 6.2 apg, 1.5 steals, 1.2 TO

Junior pg stats:
Tinsley: 11 ppg, 6.6 apg, 2.6 steals, 4.2 TO
Monte: 13.8 ppg, 6.9 apg, 1.8 steals, 1.2 TO

When you adjust for Monte's much better shooting %, but Tinsley's teams much slower pace it's pretty clear Monte was the better scorer and shooter, Tinsley slightly better assists, Tinsley clearly better steals, Monte radically better not turning over the ball (maybe 5x better adjusted for pace).

Then you have these bonus MM years:
Soph: 11.9 ppg, 5.2 apg, 1.9 steals, 1.1 TO
Fresh: 6.8 ppg, 3.7 apg, 1.3 steals, 0.8 TO

Awards:
Tinsley - All American 2nd team, Big 12 PotY, Big 12 1st team, Big 12 2nd team
Monte - All Big 12 2nd team, All Big 12 2nd team, All Big 12 1st team, Big 12 Tournament MVP

Team success:
Tinsley - Big 12 outright title x2, Big 12 tournament champ, elite 8, first round exit
Monte - Big 12 tournament champ x2, Sweet 16 x2, Round of 32, first round exit

This is a GREAT debate. I want to say the Big 12 was slightly tougher the Morris years. The top was very comparable but the Big 12 didn't hit it's current crazy deep quality until Nebraska/Colorado left. The bottom of the Big 12 sucked in the 90s compared to the past decade plus. Tinsley's team with Fizer is definitely our best team ever and even with Fizer they needed Tinsley to be that elite, but the second year that team was not better than several Fred teams or even this year's team.

 

[Pharmacy99]

JTs dribble between the OU defender‘s legs in Big 12 championship tells me all I need to know

That was entertaining but he shouldn’t have done that.

 

[NickTheGreat]

I think it has to be Tinsley, but Monte is closer than most think. Monte maybe from a pure PG standpoint of passing, but Tinsley more overall.

I remember watching Halliburton play at ISU, but I don't remember being 'wowed' by him as much from a PG standpoint as Monte, or Tinsley. NBA-wise it obviously isn't a comparison.

Tamin is good, great at times, but he has a while to enter my top top-5.

 

[enisthemenace]

His handling was elite but was it better than Morris or Haliburton? I am not sure. Tinsley wowed the crowed with razzle-dazzle against inferior opponents but also turned it over much more frequently than Morris and Haliburton.

Yes. Tinsley’s handle was better than anyone we’ve had. Way better.

As for his turnover numbers, most of his turnovers were passes that the intended recipient couldn’t handle, and not because they were bad passes, but more because said recipient just didn’t see what Tinsley saw, so they weren’t expecting it.

Monte was a more consistent passer because most of his passes were “normal”. The pass against UNCC in the tournament - Hogue outlet to Morris, no dribble bounce pass through two defenders to Ejim - was NOT normal/closer to a Tinsley type pass. Freshman/sophomore Ejim probably doesn’t catch that pass though. Monte was also really good at placing passes into the pocket for shooters. Nothing flashy…just accurate.

The thing that really separates Tinsley from all others, aside from his handle, was what he would do to opposing guards on the defensive end. He completely demoralized guys.

 

[ruxCYtable]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Tinsley turned the ball over a little more than the others, but he made such amazing plays you would not want him dialing it back. He's #1 for me.

 

[heitclone]

How can anyone have Haliburton on their list? The guy played 22 games at pg here. His college career isn't even top 5 for pgs at ISU.

 

[JimmyChitwood]

Tinsley with his blacktop skills. Monte with his distribution skills and Tyrese with his all time game performance. Tinsley sticks in my mind the most.

 

[Pharmacy99]

How can anyone have Haliburton on their list? The guy played 22 games at pg here. His college career isn't even top 5 for pgs at ISU.

Look at his numbers. It is elite. PG shooting over 50% overall with better than 40% from 3 pts while averaging same amount of assists and 1/3 of TO than Tinsley.

 

[HFCS]

How can anyone have Haliburton on their list? The guy played 22 games at pg here. His college career isn't even top 5 for pgs at ISU.

Why minimize our greatest pro basketball player ever?

He played 57 and started 56. His freshman year was similar to Monte but any NBA fan could see the massive potential of a 7 foot wing span pure point guard, no reason to pretend he didn't contribute when he helped win a Big 12 tournament.

He's a point guard 100% of the plays he's played at both levels.

Sophomore season was proving to be incredibly elite before injury. I'm not arguing him above MM or JT, but he was a great point guard even as a freshman. I think he'd have been even better that season if Fred had stayed.

 

[JimDogRock]

Quick answers at the top.
If I need to win 1 game it's Jamaal Tinsley.
If I'm building a team for 1 season it's Haliburton.
If I need to win 100 games in 4 years, it's Monte Morris.


Also, how about looking at it by age?
Tinsley turned 23 toward the end of his senior year at Iowa State, and he won Big 12 Player of the Year.
Haliburton turned 23 toward the end of his 3rd NBA season, and he was an All Star.
Morris turned 23 before his 2nd NBA season, and he was a really good backup PG.

Back to the main question. It's asking for "the best ever while at Iowa State".

Monte gets the nod if you're looking for the whole volume of work. He made good to great plays all game every game for 4 years. He was surrounded by lots of good to great players.

Tinsley was a one-on-one dominator. The video clip at the top is a perfect example. He knew he could take anyone off the dribble, and he would often make flashy plays. Turnover numbers were higher because of that and the time period. The games were a lot more packed in around the year 2000 at all levels of basketball.
His dominating went to the other side of the ball, however. His steal numbers were ridiculous.
If you need one stop or one bucket in a game at Iowa State, you pick Tinsley for your PG every time in my opinion.

Haliburton had a quiet command of the game that came so naturally. His potential would shine through so vividly because his game looked almost effortless. He usually had a little more flair than Monte.
I wonder what his sophomore year could have amounted to if he had not been shut down due to a wrist injury and had a better supporting cast. Bolton was a solid player that earned honorable mention Big 12 honors.
Give him Mitrou-Long, Burton, and Thomas to run with like Monte had as a senior and who knows what would have happened.

 

[ISUTex]

Still not the same as what Tinsley had, I can't describe it, but if you went to basketball games back then, you could see it, you could tell he slept with a ball, ate with it, did everything with it because it was like a part of his body.

I can picture Tinsley walking around clubs with a bottle of hard stuff in one hand and a basketball in the other.