*** Official Idaho State vs IOWA STATE Game(Day) Thread ***

[ZRF]

As long as people are weighing in on everything ....

* I, too, have some concerns about C. Jones' efficiency but I keep in mind that we have a small data set and we know that he had a solid 3pt % in the MAC last year, a decent mid-major conference. I'm assuming he'll be shooting much better than 17% from deep by January.

* I was glad to see J-Pav get some rotation minutes. You can see he's got a good stroke and his freshman numbers back that up. I also want to get a better sense of his D vs. tough competition.

* Momcilovic has been a revelation. I'll be looking at how he does versus more athletic P5-type forwards. He doesn't have an aerial game (though he's crafty as hell) and teams will try to cut down on his space. CW noted in his podcast that he's come a long way on D and still has much to learn; seeing if he can keep B12 wings in front of him will be interesting. The guy's a baller.

* Just on reputation - McDonald's, for example - I had expected that Biliew would have some offensive weapons beyond hustle and his athleticism. I'm hoping he'll get comfortable in some catch-and-shoot situations as it doesn't seem like his mechanics are bad. The guy goes hard.

* I understand playing cupcakes early in the season but with UWGB, Lindenwood, that other ISU, Grambling and New Hampshire, this fan would rather lose 2 of those for UNI and Drake. I think it's better for the state and it's just so much more efficient in terms of travel time. There aren't many P5 tests on the schedule before we run into the B12 gauntlet.

I think this team has a chance to be good but I find myself reining in expectations with such a soft schedule so far. The depth reminds of the the year under Prohm wtih THT and Hali as freshman, Lindell as a soph and Shayok. They sometimes put the fun in dysfunctional, however.

A post with actual thought and substance instead of people whining about an opinion backed up by stats and logic. Good post, sir.

 

[madguy30]

Is it possible ZRF is ol jeresib?

That's No Creativity now.

Give it a while and we'll start seeing 'they had the conference title all but wrapped up in mid-January and then the worst thing ever in my life happened and a better team won it AGAIN' posts.

ZRF is more like Swarthemore/FinalFour/Whoisthis
with less smothering but more meltdowns.

 

[madguy30]

A post with actual thought and substance instead of people whining about an opinion backed up by stats and logic. Good post, sir.

I'll give you the 'stats' props. It's a dedicated effort to dig that deeply into an early November game to go after one player after spending other seasons degrading other individual players.

 

[ZRF]

FWIW- C. Jones is actually playing poorly looking at his KenPom #s. Now, he's obviously in a slump and the only way to get out of a slump is to shoot your way out of it.

View attachment 119269



However, he has improved each game so far.

View attachment 119270

Actual stats? How dare you take a stance with facts? Quit being negative?

For the millionth ******* time I'm not jumping off a ledge. If the parade of idiots like isufbcurt would actually the time to go back through the posting history they'd find I only elaborated on my thoughts on Jones once people attacked by initial premise, which was that Jones was struggling and largely because of poor shot selection (while taking too many shots). The funny thing is nobody has actually combatting the actual premise with anything other than claims of "I'm being negative", "it's only three games", or "he's doing what TJ told him to do".

What's funny is that I never actually disagreed with the last two. Again, I think it's flawed basketball to tell your most inefficient player to shoot as much as possible, seemingly throwing caution to the wind with shot selection. Much like my criticisms of BRE last year, there was ample data that showed BRE was one of the most inefficient (and poor) offensive players in the league. My gripe was 1) BRE was consistently trying to do too much offensively (putting the ball on teh floor, taking bad shots, etc) and 2) He was getting too much playing time. With Jones my issues are 1) He's taking bad shots and too many of them (both bad shots and overall shots) 2) TJ is seemingly encouraging him, at least publicly, with the wrong emphasis on why. If he wants to get his shot going against weak competition I'm down. But if he think Jones is a (likely) high volume player/scorer and wants him to shoot as much possible (insinuating he's a primary option), that's more than likely a mistake. Why? He has an ample sample size, against largely inferior competition (at Buffalo) that suggest he is a complimentary player (offensively) that was taking too many shots.

In that same sample size, both at Buffalo and thus far here, he's shown to have 1) very good handles (doesn't turn the ball over) 2) is a good to potentially great defensive player 3) and is a pretty good distributor for a wing player. He's also had pathetic FT numbers for a guy who has the ability to drive and plays 30 minutes a game. Combine that with good handles, low TOs, and good Ft our coach should be telling him to pick his spots driving and want him to be more aggressive getting tot he basket.

Milan should be leading this team in shots on a consistent basis. He has a special shot, is virtually unguardable (on the perimiter), and is an EXTREMELY efficient player. If there is anyone you want to have "shoot the ball" ingrained into his brain it's him. If C Jones continues to be a high volume player when the competition improves it's poor utilization. Just like any player he'll have some nights where those shots fall but more often than not it will diminish our offensive efficiency. And that's what it's all about.

 

[madguy30]

Actual stats? How dare you take a stance with facts? Quit being negative?

For the millionth ******* time I'm not jumping off a ledge. If the parade of idiots like isufbcurt would actually the time to go back through the posting history they'd find I only elaborated on my thoughts on Jones once people attacked by initial premise, which was that Jones was struggling and largely because of poor shot selection (while taking too many shots). The funny thing is nobody has actually combatting the actual premise with anything other than claims of "I'm being negative", "it's only three games", or "he's doing what TJ told him to do".

What's funny is that I never actually disagreed with the last two. Again, I think it's flawed basketball to tell your most inefficient player to shoot as much as possible, seemingly throwing caution to the wind with shot selection. Much like my criticisms of BRE last year, there was ample data that showed BRE was one of the most inefficient (and poor) offensive players in the league. My gripe was 1) BRE was consistently trying to do too much offensively (putting the ball on teh floor, taking bad shots, etc) and 2) He was getting too much playing time. With Jones my issues are 1) He's taking bad shots and too many of them (both bad shots and overall shots) 2) TJ is seemingly encouraging him, at least publicly, with the wrong emphasis on why. If he wants to get his shot going against weak competition I'm down. But if he think Jones is a (likely) high volume player/scorer and wants him to shoot as much possible (insinuating he's a primary option), that's more than likely a mistake. Why? He has an ample sample size, against largely inferior competition (at Buffalo) that suggest he is a complimentary player (offensively) that was taking too many shots.

In that same sample size, both at Buffalo and thus far here, he's shown to have 1) very good handles (doesn't turn the ball over) 2) is a good to potentially great defensive player 3) and is a pretty good distributor for a wing player. He's also had pathetic FT numbers for a guy who has the ability to drive and plays 30 minutes a game. Combine that with good handles, low TOs, and good Ft our coach should be telling him to pick his spots driving and want him to be more aggressive getting tot he basket.

Milan should be leading this team in shots on a consistent basis. He has a special shot, is virtually unguardable (on the perimiter), and is an EXTREMELY efficient player. If there is anyone you want to have "shoot the ball" ingrained into his brain it's him. If C Jones continues to be a high volume player when the competition improves it's poor utilization. Just like any player he'll have some nights where those shots fall but more often than not it will diminish our offensive efficiency. And that's what it's all about.

You get called out for negativity because you consistently call players 'pathetic' etc. and have actually asked (paraphrasing) 'What's so negative about saying a player sucks?' which is exactly what that is.

How do you know C. Jones is an inefficient player in the first 3 games against nobody? Could it possible that it's taking some time for him to get acclimated to game speed and a new system at the same time that he's trying to carve a role off the bench? Is TJ playing with different line ups 'coach speak'?

And there we go again, saying Robert Jones shouldn't have been playing as much. How do you know? Want stats? His fouls per minute were about the same as Osun or King III last season. Osun was injured and got tired quickly so even if he was efficient it would wear down pretty quickly. I would guess you think he should just not get tired but that's not how the human body works.

2022-23 Iowa State Cyclones Men's Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Check out the detailed 2022-23 Iowa State Cyclones Roster and Stats for College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

The only glaring difference was free throw percentage. He may have glued the ball to himself a few times but there needed to be something for a defense to consider since pressing the perimeter was pretty easy with the personnel available.

 

[Cardinal2001]

second look at McDermott?

 

[Cardinal2001]

I see Jackson P having to adjust to team speed, last game is the best he looked.

I see Omaha having to adjust to team speed. Last game he slowed it down and looked better.

Jones is adjusting too. Not everyone hits the ground running like Milan did.

Calm down. It's gonna be ok. In fact it's looking downright awesome right now.

 

[madguy30]

second look at McDermott?

Huh?

 

[CloniesForLife]

It's ok that not all of our guys are maxing out 3 games into the season. In fact it's a good thing there is room for growth throughout the year. That is something the last couple years hasn't really had.

 

[madguy30]

It's ok that not all of our guys are maxing out 3 games into the season. In fact it's a good thing there is room for growth throughout the year. That is something the last couple years hasn't really had.

Can you imagine some CFers about this time in 1999? They lost to Drake on November 19 of that year.

 

[CycloneErik]

Can you imagine some CFers about this time in 1999? They lost to Drake on November 19 of that year.

And we didn't win it all that year. In fact, we never have in a year that we lost to Drake.

 

[madguy30]

And we didn't win it all that year. In fact, we never have in a year that we lost to Drake.

Fizer with only 13.

It's a wonder he got as many minutes as he did that season after such a pathetic, terrible, awful performance.

 

[CycloneErik]

Fizer with only 13.

It's a wonder he got as many minutes as he did that season after such a pathetic, terrible, awful performance.

Desperate program. Low standards. What can you do?

 

[madguy30]

Desperate program. Low standards. What can you do?

Definitely don't let a season play out, for starters.

 

[CycloneErik]

Definitely don't let a season play out, for starters.

The only better time to complain than 3-0 is 4-0.

 

[ZRF]

You get called out for negativity because you consistently call players 'pathetic' etc. and have actually asked (paraphrasing) 'What's so negative about saying a player sucks?' which is exactly what that is.

How do you know C. Jones is an inefficient player in the first 3 games against nobody? Could it possible that it's taking some time for him to get acclimated to game speed and a new system at the same time that he's trying to carve a role off the bench? Is TJ playing with different line ups 'coach speak'?

And there we go again, saying Robert Jones shouldn't have been playing as much. How do you know? Want stats? His fouls per minute were about the same as Osun or King III last season. Osun was injured and got tired quickly so even if he was efficient it would wear down pretty quickly. I would guess you think he should just not get tired but that's not how the human body works.

2022-23 Iowa State Cyclones Men's Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Check out the detailed 2022-23 Iowa State Cyclones Roster and Stats for College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

The only glaring difference was free throw percentage. He may have glued the ball to himself a few times but there needed to be something for a defense to consider since pressing the perimeter was pretty easy with the personnel available.

Early season Osun was a very effective player and was routinely taken out when he was giving the opposition fits (first Kansas game says hi). As the season wore on? Much less so. For whatever the reason he appeared to have the worst lung capacity of just about any tenured player I have ever seen. Maybe he's anemic or something, I have no idea, but he definitely had a hard time staying on the floor

Jones' issues were never about fouls, they were offensive efficiency and switches (teams would isolate him on a switch at the top of the key and drive on him). He was statistically one of the worst, if not the worst, offensive player in league play. Early in the season Osun should have had more playing time. Later it should have been King. At least Jones started to reel in his forced offense at the end of the season. When he initiates quick moves, passes the ball when nothing there, and abstains from putting the ball on the floor he's a useful player. This year he (along with several others players...as mentioned) look chiseled and more explosive. If he sticks to what he does best he might actually be an asset, though he should not come close to getting the minutes of King (which was a mistake last year).

R Jones' footwork looks much better than it did last year. Whatever Pete Link, the coaches, and the players did in the off-season was phenomenal in terms of strength, conditioning, and explosiveness. R Jones, Lipsey, King, and Watson definitely put the work in over the offseason.

 

[dafarmer]

Early season Osun was a very effective player and was routinely taken out when he was giving the opposition fits (first Kansas game says hi). As the season wore on? Much less so. For whatever the reason he appeared to have the worst lung capacity of just about any tenured player I have ever seen. Maybe he's anemic or something, I have no idea, but he definitely had a hard time staying on the floor

Jones' issues were never about fouls, they were offensive efficiency and switches (teams would isolate him on a switch at the top of the key and drive on him). He was statistically one of the worst, if not the worst, offensive player in league play. Early in the season Osun should have had more playing time. Later it should have been King. At least Jones started to reel in his forced offense at the end of the season. When he initiates quick moves, passes the ball when nothing there, and abstains from putting the ball on the floor he's a useful player. This year he (along with several others players...as mentioned) look chiseled and more explosive. If he sticks to what he does best he might actually be an asset, though he should not come close to getting the minutes of King (which was a mistake last year).

R Jones' footwork looks much better than it did last year. Whatever Pete Link, the coaches, and the players did in the off-season was phenomenal in terms of strength, conditioning, and explosiveness. R Jones, Lipsey, King, and Watson definitely put the work in over the offseason.

ZRF saying something “complementary” about Rob Jones? Who kidnapped him and posted in his place?

 

[Cyclones8824]

Early season Osun was a very effective player and was routinely taken out when he was giving the opposition fits (first Kansas game says hi). As the season wore on? Much less so. For whatever the reason he appeared to have the worst lung capacity of just about any tenured player I have ever seen. Maybe he's anemic or something, I have no idea, but he definitely had a hard time staying on the floor

Jones' issues were never about fouls, they were offensive efficiency and switches (teams would isolate him on a switch at the top of the key and drive on him). He was statistically one of the worst, if not the worst, offensive player in league play. Early in the season Osun should have had more playing time. Later it should have been King. At least Jones started to reel in his forced offense at the end of the season. When he initiates quick moves, passes the ball when nothing there, and abstains from putting the ball on the floor he's a useful player. This year he (along with several others players...as mentioned) look chiseled and more explosive. If he sticks to what he does best he might actually be an asset, though he should not come close to getting the minutes of King (which was a mistake last year).

R Jones' footwork looks much better than it did last year. Whatever Pete Link, the coaches, and the players did in the off-season was phenomenal in terms of strength, conditioning, and explosiveness. R Jones, Lipsey, King, and Watson definitely put the work in over the offseason.

I think Osun had nagging ankle issues throughout the season

 

[t-noah]

For the millionth ******* time I'm not jumping off a ledge.... If the parade of idiots like.... The funny thing is....

What's funny is that I never...

And that's what it's all about.

Getting very old in 3, 2, 1...

 

[Cyforce]

Can you imagine some CFers about this time in 1999? They lost to Drake on November 19 of that year.

I was there, brutal.