*** Official Idaho State vs IOWA STATE Game(Day) Thread ***

[madguy30]

View attachment 119210

It's funny how there's only one poster calling him that like it's commonplace.

Talk about living in your own world.

 

[jctisu]

You may want to read up on TJ's post-game comments about C. Jones.

Forget it, the idiot is rolling...I guess.

 

[madguy30]

Forget it, the idiot is rolling...I guess.

It's manifesto Monday over a basketball team that might make the tourney if things go well.

 

[dafarmer]

We've never had a guy that can shoot unguardable fade aways and rain 3s like there is no tomorrow. We've had guys like Hoiberg, Willoughby, McGee, Long, Thomas, etc that could hit the 3. But nobody that even comes close to approaching what Buckets can do.

Normally it would be ridiculous but I feel confident he is easily the best shooter to ever play at this school. I don't even think it's close.

Ok, Martha. You are never wrong.

 

[isufbcurt]

We should be honored that both Vince Lombardi's and John Wooden's ghosts have come together to share an account on CF to share their coaching wisdom.

 

[Cychl82]

Was able to watch at Hilton yesterday and one guy in particular really stood out to me. Watson was amazing defensively, effort on the glass and his hustle. Really hope to see him breakout this year with more minutes

 

[xboxfever]

Was able to watch at Hilton yesterday and one guy in particular really stood out to me. Watson was amazing defensively, effort on the glass and his hustle. Really hope to see him breakout this year with more minutes

Watson has great footwork, great defensive awareness, and is usually in a good position for a rebound. If he were 3-4 inches taller, he would be an all conference caliber player. He’s an athletic power forward in a shooting guard body.

 

[madguy30]

We should be honored that both Vince Lombardi's and John Wooden's ghosts have come together to share an account on CF to share their coaching wisdom.

I would guess those two didn't obsess about how horrible their players were.

 

[MJ271]

Just because I felt like it and apparently have too much time on my hands to spend on message board arguments, here's documentation of Curtis Jones's three-point attempts yesterday:

Attempt #1: Pull-up shot in transition. He probably could have held on to see if something developed with Biliew and Jones coming down the court, but he also didn't have any defender even close to him (both of Idaho State's defenders were closer to Biliew and Robert Jones than they were to Curtis). Shot was missed and followed with an easy Robert Jones putback.
Attempt #2: Catch and shoot after an offensive rebound coming from a Momcilovic miss. Jones stepped into it, and the defender had a late closeout. A shot that no one should have any issues with. Shot was missed with an Idaho State rebound.
Attempt #3: Jones got the ball on a kick out from Momcilovic. He did make a mistake here, but the mistake was that he hesitated and didn't shoot it right away. Still, the defender left quite a bit of room, and the shot wasn't awful. He missed the shot and the rebound went out of bounds.
Attempt #4: Curtis Jones has the ball at the top of the key with one of Idaho State's bigs guarding him, Robert Jones comes up to set the screen, both defenders go with Robert Jones when he starts to roll, Curtis Jones has a quite a bit of space and makes the shot from a couple of feet behind the three-point line.
Attempt #5: Jones brought the ball up, passed it to Biliew on the perimeter, got it back, and shot it from right next to the Pioneer logo. A deep shot, but it was in rhythm and the defender was back a ways. I believe his make in the previous game was from a similar distance. If he's comfortable shooting from there (which I think he is), it's not a horrible shot.
Attempt #6: Gilbert drive and drop-off to Watson, who kicked it out to a wide-open Curtis Jones. Beautiful play, Jones finishes it with a made shot.

So to sum up, he was only being actively guarded on 1/6 shots. On a couple, he was pretty deep, but again, I assume he can make those if he's taking them (plus we've already seen him make them from a few feet behind the line). I would also say that there was not a single shot attempt where he had another option that would have immediately led to a higher-percentage shot.

 

[Cloned4Life]

I don't disagree with the rest if his game. There is simply no point to having a "volume shooter" waste possessions when there isn't a need for it. Buckets, Gilbert, and even Lipsey are more efficient players and should be getting more volume. I'd also put King above C. Jones. Yet 3 games in C. Jones leads the team in shots. I don't this benefits the team going forward.

I do not know for sure, but from what I can piece together, he is shooting the shots (in volume) that the staff believes he can make. Even the ones that feel out of flow. He hasn't made many yet. IF he continues to shoot this bad for a few more games, they will absolutely have to pivot and take away his green light. Personally, I am not concerned just yet.

 

[ZRF]

I do not know for sure, but from what I can piece together, he is shooting the shots (in volume) that the staff believes he can make. Even the ones that feel out of flow. He hasn't made many yet. IF he continues to shoot this bad for a few more games, they will absolutely have to pivot and take away his green light. Personally, I am not concerned just yet.

This is quite possible and...luckily...these games don't really matter that much for it.

If the volume, the selection, and the results continue then coaches need to absolutely pivot. I just think it's ludicrous to cite coach speak when coaches, especially Otz, rarely blast players (even if they are screwing up). There are a few like Self that tend to be publicly more critical but that's the exception not the norm.

If the volume was high but the selection was good this would be a completely different story. I just think the results are a product of the selection, not what we saw from the team (kind of teamwide) yesterday where a lot of solid shots (even ones up close) weren't going in. Every one and every team has those days. You just don't want to be your own worst enemy and create your own futility.

 

[ZRF]

How do you know they're bad shots?

What specifically is coach speak about what TJ said? How do you know it's inaccurate?

If I have to explain how many of C Jones 3s (forced, out of rhythm, or guarded) are bad shots or how some of Ward's shots (yesterday) were hilariously bad I'm not sure you would get it anyway. It's really not that hard of a thing to assess.

 

[madguy30]

If I have to explain how many of C Jones 3s (forced, out of rhythm, or guarded) are bad shots or how some of Ward's shots (yesterday) were hilariously bad I'm not sure you would get it anyway. It's really not that hard of a thing to assess.

Nah, explain it please.

Have you emailed TJ with your knowledge of all things going on for ISU basketball?

 

[ZRF]

From the CW article:
CURTIS JONES: Buffalo transfer Curtis Jones was a bright spot on Sunday. The shooting guard shot 24 percent from the field in his first two games as a Cyclone. Jones played 28 minutes, went 5-for-11 and scored 14 in the win.

“The first two games I felt a little rushed,” Curtis Jones said. Watching film and going through practice, I have gotten reps every day. Today I knocked down some shots and it felt good.”

Otzelberger said that Curtis has a constant green light from the coaching staff when he enters the game.

“He is a prolific offensive player. He can really knock down shots,” Otzelberger said. “He has been sound with the basketball. He’s somebody who we need to get into a rhythm at all times, especially coming off the bench – a guy who averaged 15 a game last year at Buffalo. What I saw today was more him relaxing and shooting the ball. I still think he is thinking about it more than what we would like. We just want him to let it rip. We tell him that he’s like Steph Curry when he gets in there. Just keep coming off. Stay aggressive and hunt that shot. That really helps our offense. I thought he did a better job of that today but I k now he has a level above that we will see this season."

He averaged 15 at Buffalo on a team that didn't have 4 players that are offensively better than him at this juncture. The rest is purely coach speak. Even when guys have bad games through a product of poor effort, shot selection, or decision making there are few coaches in basketball that will tell it like is. He's pumping his tires and that's okay.

I will say...if Otz truly believes this team is better with him being hyper-aggressive, leading the team in shots, and not improving his shot selection than that's a problem. Was he better yesterday? In fairness I'd say he was, especially on decisions inside the arc (the one drive/floater in the lane was a poor decision), but many of his 3 point attempts were poor shot selection. Again, if the majority are like the last one he took (open, in rhythm, in the flow of the offense) I'm all for letting those fly. The other one he made earlier in the game is one he will make 1 out of 6 times if he's lucky (long, forced, with a defender on him). If TJ wants him shooting that crap (truly) I think that's concerning.

 

[bawbie]

Watson has great footwork, great defensive awareness, and is usually in a good position for a rebound. If he were 3-4 inches taller, he would be an all conference caliber player. He’s an athletic power forward in a shooting guard body.

I disagree on that - he's a prototypical "3 and D" wing with amazing defense and no 3pt shot (yet)

 

[CycloneErik]

Just because I felt like it and apparently have too much time on my hands to spend on message board arguments, here's documentation of Curtis Jones's three-point attempts yesterday:

Attempt #1: Pull-up shot in transition. He probably could have held on to see if something developed with Biliew and Jones coming down the court, but he also didn't have any defender even close to him (both of Idaho State's defenders were closer to Biliew and Robert Jones than they were to Curtis). Shot was missed and followed with an easy Robert Jones putback.
Attempt #2: Catch and shoot after an offensive rebound coming from a Momcilovic miss. Jones stepped into it, and the defender had a late closeout. A shot that no one should have any issues with. Shot was missed with an Idaho State rebound.
Attempt #3: Jones got the ball on a kick out from Momcilovic. He did make a mistake here, but the mistake was that he hesitated and didn't shoot it right away. Still, the defender left quite a bit of room, and the shot wasn't awful. He missed the shot and the rebound went out of bounds.
Attempt #4: Curtis Jones has the ball at the top of the key with one of Idaho State's bigs guarding him, Robert Jones comes up to set the screen, both defenders go with Robert Jones when he starts to roll, Curtis Jones has a quite a bit of space and makes the shot from a couple of feet behind the three-point line.
Attempt #5: Jones brought the ball up, passed it to Biliew on the perimeter, got it back, and shot it from right next to the Pioneer logo. A deep shot, but it was in rhythm and the defender was back a ways. I believe his make in the previous game was from a similar distance. If he's comfortable shooting from there (which I think he is), it's not a horrible shot.
Attempt #6: Gilbert drive and drop-off to Watson, who kicked it out to a wide-open Curtis Jones. Beautiful play, Jones finishes it with a made shot.

So to sum up, he was only being actively guarded on 1/6 shots. On a couple, he was pretty deep, but again, I assume he can make those if he's taking them (plus we've already seen him make them from a few feet behind the line). I would also say that there was not a single shot attempt where he had another option that would have immediately led to a higher-percentage shot.

OK, sure, but what if he had an option that led to another option to another option to another option right to a higher percentage shot. We haven't looked at this like Norman Dale yet, and he did some winning.

 

[Nader_uggghhh]

I like Watson a lot. I'm guessing that Biliew will eat up a lot of his minutes by the end of the year even though Demarion is a better college basketball player right now. He's 6'-7" with a 7'+ wingspan, not sure it's fair to call him a PF in a SG body.

lt seems like C Jones is getting some of the Gabe treatment from the staff. He's clearly not the best shooter on the team but TJ wants to build his confidence by giving him the green light to let it fly. Do I think he should be leading the team in shots? No. Is it a problem yet? No.

 

[bawbie]

He averaged 15 at Buffalo on a team that didn't have 4 players that are offensively better than him at this juncture. The rest is purely coach speak. Even when guys have bad games through a product of poor effort, shot selection, or decision making there are few coaches in basketball that will tell it like is. He's pumping his tires and that's okay.

I will say...if Otz truly believes this team is better with him being hyper-aggressive, leading the team in shots, and not improving his shot selection than that's a problem. Was he better yesterday? In fairness I'd say he was, especially on decisions inside the arc (the one drive/floater in the lane was a poor decision), but many of his 3 point attempts were poor shot selection. Again, if the majority are like the last one he took (open, in rhythm, in the flow of the offense) I'm all for letting those fly. The other one he made earlier in the game is one he will make 1 out of 6 times if he's lucky (long, forced, with a defender on him). If TJ wants him shooting that crap (truly) I think that's concerning.

Ladies and gentlemen, ZRF is officially "concerned".

Let the letter writing campaign commence.

 

[bawbie]

I like Watson a lot. I'm guessing that Biliew will eat up a lot of his minutes by the end of the year even though Demarion is a better college basketball player right now. He's 6'-7" with a 7'+ wingspan, not sure it's fair to call him a PF in a SG body.

lt seems like C Jones is getting some of the Gabe treatment from the staff. He's clearly not the best shooter on the team but TJ wants to build his confidence by giving him the green light to let it fly. Do I think he should be leading the team in shots? No. Is it a problem yet? No.

I will agree with one thing - Milan should be leading the team in shots. He needs to shoot more

 

[CycloneErik]

Ladies and gentlemen, ZRF is officially "concerned".

Let the letter writing campaign commence.

Well, if you're not concerned at 3-0, when can you be concerned?