Game of Thrones Season 8

[HFCS]

4) Why is Jon exiled?

Agree with some of your other critiques but this is consistent with the series and novels.

If killing Dany leave John as king then Jaime would have been a more obvious king than Robert. Instead Jaime had to take the King's guard oath, it's very consistent with John going back to a life of the watch given that he and Jaime did nearly identical things.

 

[JeanValette]

So in essence (most of) Westeros has turned into an elective monarchy, similar to what the Holy Roman Empire used to be.

What they don't tell you is as soon as Bran is gone, the kingship would go to who could bribe the most electors.

 

[isufbcurt]

Agree with some of your other critiques but this is consistent with the series and novels.

If killing Dany leave John as king then Jaime would have been a more obvious king than Robert. Instead Jaime had to take the King's guard oath, it's very consistent with John going back to a life of the watch given that he and Jaime did nearly identical things.

Except Jon is actually an heir

 

[SolarGarlic]

The only annoyance I had with last night was the part where Samwell said Tyrion wasn't mentioned in The Song of Ice and Fire. There is absolutely no way that story is told without Tyrion Lannister being mentioned.

Other than that I enjoyed it, and loved the show for what it is. I don't think this season would've lived up to peoples expectations no matter how it ended and I never understood why people wanted to bash the show throughout the whole final season after they had so many good thoughts on the show. But to each their own, I guess. Thanks for the ride HBO.

More forced humor that for whatever reason, they thought was needed in the final season of perhaps the most dramatic show in TV history.

 

[HFCS]

Except Jon is actually an heir

Robert wasn't an heir, yet he was viewed as winning the thrown. Jaime wasn't viewed as winning the thrown even though he literally killed the king, was from a noble house, and was viewed as the best swordsman of the day.

Killing someone on the thrown has a negative connotation in this world. People mock Jaime for it even though they know the mad king was evil.

Jon facing no consequence for killing her would have been pretty out there from the novels and previous seasons.

 

[Orin02]

Agree with some of your other critiques but this is consistent with the series and novels.

If killing Dany leave John as king then Jaime would have been a more obvious king than Robert. Instead Jaime had to take the King's guard oath, it's very consistent with John going back to a life of the watch given that he and Jaime did nearly identical things.

Yeah except, as stated, Jon actually was the heir and Jaime was just a killer. As long as Drogon is alive, Jon has to end up as king. (Which is why I was certain all the dragons would die.) I picked Jon to return to the wall at the end of the season. But Bran is a horrible choice. I really wanted Gendry to end up as king.

 

[HFCS]

Yeah except, as stated, Jon actually was the heir and Jaime was just a killer. As long as Drogon is alive, Jon has to end up as king. (Which is why I was certain all the dragons would die.) I picked Jon to return to the wall at the end of the season. But Bran is a horrible choice. I really wanted Gendry to end up as king.

I still think it's a world that makes less sense when Jon is celebrated for killing the queen and Jaime is mocked by everyone for killing a king. Especially when the killed royals in question are people going mad from the exact same family.

Jon facing no consequence for killing her would have made the ending make less sense and nullified a lot of what came before.

There are plenty of other ways they could have had Jon end up on the throne. Ending up there after killing Dany would have been freaking horrible in so many ways.

 

[Mr Janny]

Robert wasn't an heir, yet he was viewed as winning the thrown. Jaime wasn't viewed as winning the thrown even though he literally killed the king, was from a noble house, and was viewed as the best swordsman of the day.

Killing someone on the thrown has a negative connotation in this world. People mock Jaime for it even though they know the mad king was evil.

Technically, Robert Baratheon was selected because he had the most Targ blood of any of the winners of the rebellion. House Baratheon began with the bastard half brother of Aegon the conqueror.

 

[HFCS]

Technically, Robert Baratheon was selected because he had the most Targ blood of any of the winners of the rebellion. House Baratheon began with the bastard half brother of Argon the conqueror.

And Jaime was celebrated throughout the land for killing the mad king.

No, the exact opposite.

All I'm saying is once Jon kills her, it makes absolutely no sense that the world would celebrate him with zero consequence for killing the mad queen. The same world that sneared at the person who killed the mad king. So glad they didn't go there, I probably would have enjoyed other scenarios where Jon is king but not that one.

 

[Orin02]

I still think it's a world that makes less sense when Jon is celebrated for killing the queen and Jaime is mocked by everyone for killing a king. Especially when the killed royals in question are people going mad from the exact same family.

Jon facing no consequence for killing her would have made the ending make less sense and nullified a lot of what came before.

There are plenty of other ways they could have had Jon end up on the throne. Ending up there after killing Dany would have been freaking horrible in so many ways.

I totally get where you are coming from. But Jaime was a knight of the Kingsguard, sworn to protect the king. Which is why he is reviled by everyone not named Lannister. He violated an oath that was, historically, very well respected.

After Daenarys destroying King's Landing and murdering a few hundred thousand innocents, only the Unsullied and the Dothroki were solidly in her corner. Since they all departed, I don't know that he would have suffered the same kind of shunning. But probably he would have had some. Ultimately, Jon would have stayed on the throne if everyone insisted. If not, he certainly would have gone back North, either to rule the North or to the wall.

 

[HFCS]

I totally get where you are coming from. But Jaime was a knight of the Kingsguard, sworn to protect the king. Which is why he is reviled by everyone not named Lannister. He violated an oath that was, historically, very well respected.

After Daenarys destroying King's Landing and murdering a few hundred thousand innocents, only the Unsullied and the Dothroki were solidly in her corner. Since they all departed, I don't know that he would have suffered the same kind of shunning. But probably he would have had some. Ultimately, Jon would have stayed on the throne if everyone insisted. If not, he certainly would have gone back North, either to rule the North or to the wall.

I think part of why he doesn't insist is exactly what I'm saying.

If he insists he isn't even the person we all think he is and want him to be.

Again, for many many reasons after he kills her one of the worst endings would have been that he ended up on the throne.

 

[cycloneG]

I totally get where you are coming from. But Jaime was a knight of the Kingsguard, sworn to protect the king. Which is why he is reviled by everyone not named Lannister. He violated an oath that was, historically, very well respected.

After Daenarys destroying King's Landing and murdering a few hundred thousand innocents, only the Unsullied and the Dothroki were solidly in her corner. Since they all departed, I don't know that he would have suffered the same kind of shunning. But probably he would have had some. Ultimately, Jon would have stayed on the throne if everyone insisted. If not, he certainly would have gone back North, either to rule the North or to the wall.

That's not entirely true. Yara was still in her corner.

 

[Orin02]

One last thought on this, like it or not, people don't find this type of ending in any way satisfying. This was basically the end of Battlestar Galactica too, and people hated that.

Agreed 100%. Really one of the worst endings in tv history. And I loved that show.

 

[Orin02]

That's not entirely true. Yara was still in her corner.

True. Yara definitely was still in her corner. But that only reinforces my idea that after Daenarys diesh, she would peace out.

 

[ThatllDoCy]

This is my read on it too, and ultimately the show and story feels really nihilistic.

My question is actually how long Bran's rule lasts. I think it's less than 10 years.

1. Bran is an incredibly weak king. He has almost no claim to the throne (by Westerosi standards), he is unable to sire children, and apparently he's going to be a puppet ruler where Tyrion controls things, who is an unpopular guy with almost no power base since the entire Lannister army is decimated. Also, Jon didn't denounce his claim, he was punished, giving anybody wanting to challenge Bran's claim all kinds of ammo.
2. Dorne is probably EASILY the stronger power left in Westeros. I can't see them sitting there like you said.
3. Yara had a promise of independence. The Iron Born are not going to sit on that. Plus, there is absolutely nothing to stop them from reaving from the wall to Dorne.
4. For all we know the Dothraki are still there. That's going to go well. Probably the largest and most fearsome standing army in the country by a mile.
5. The Starks just basically rule everything? That's going to rub a lot of people the wrong way.
6. The Iron Bank is still owed a TON of money from the crown for the hiring of the golden company. The tax base of Westeros is basically destroyed... how is Bran going to pay that back...with Bronn as your master of coin?
7. Bronn is basically the ruler of a depopulated area? So the Lannisters just killed everybody in the Reach apparently.

I mean it's hard to imagine just how destroyed Westeros is right now outside of Dorne and maybe the Vale, however I have to assume most of the knights of the Vale were killed in the battle of Winterfell.

And boy are they ripe for invasion from Essos.

 

[cycloneG]

True. Yara definitely was still in her corner. But that only reinforces my idea that after Daenarys diesh, she would peace out.

I thought you were talking about making Jon king.

 

[isutrevman]

True. Yara definitely was still in her corner. But that only reinforces my idea that after Daenarys diesh, she would peace out.

She could have, but chose not to. Why? We will never know. I think she made it clear she probably would have claimed their independence had Jon been named King, though, due to him killing her Queen.

 

[Mr Janny]

One last thought on this, like it or not, people don't find this type of ending in any way satisfying. This was basically the end of Battlestar Galactica too, and people hated that.

Chinatown
No Country For Old Men
Se7en
LA Confidential
Just to name a few.

Some people like their endings wrapped up in a nice little bow. And there's certainly a time and place for that. But if people were expecting that out of GOT, they were setting themselves up to be disappointed. It was never going to be like that.

 

[HFCS]

What are the strongest supernatural forces in the show now that we've seen it all play out?

3 eyed raven/warg abilities if he actually uses his powers
Controlling 3 dragons and being impervious to flames
Turning the dead into your slave army
Red witch demon shadow baby assassin
Dying 19 times and not dying
Faceless men
Giants

Things that turned out to not be that powerful:
3 eyed raven that doesn't use his powers much
Red witch lighting dothraki weapons on fire
That witch's prophecies

 

[ImJustKCClone]

YOU'D THINK SAM WOULD KNOW BETTER THAN TO LEAVE THE WOMEN CARRYING HIS BASTARD THEAN!?!?! HE IS A GRAND MAESTER AND A MAN OF THE NIGHT'S WATCH! HE IS AN OATHBREAKER!

You seem...
perturbed...