Game of Thrones Season 8

[Dandy]

Did the Dothraki leave with the Unsullied?

They left King's Landing at the same time but they are going their separate ways.

 

[Dandy]

After thinking on it, I don't mind the ending but I hate how rushed everything was and how they cut out scenes that were assumed to happen.

Jon tells Bran to tell Arya/Sansa who Jon really is... scene change. No! Let us see Arya and Sansa's reaction.

Jon kills Dany. Drogon flies away with her body... scene change. No! Let us see Jon surrendering to Grey Worm.

Extending this series to 80 episodes would have been so much better.

 

[somecyguy]

Regarding #6 - I read a couple weeks ago that the debt of a kingdom only passes if an heir of the debt takes the throne. Since their is a new family ruling the debt is no longer there.

I wonder if the Iron Bank can get any help under TARP. 2/3rds of the remaining Lannisters wiped out and the city of Kings Landing reduced to ashes. If that's not a troubled asset....

 

[CycloneErik]

View attachment 64364

This thread is pretty much yours now. Good stuff.

 

[Mr Janny]

After thinking on it, I don't mind the ending but I hate how rushed everything was and how they cut out scenes that were assumed to happen.

Jon tells Bran to tell Arya/Sansa who Jon really is... scene change. No! Let us see Arya and Sansa's reaction.

Jon kills Dany. Drogon flies away with her body... scene change. No! Let us see Jon surrendering to Grey Worm.

Extending this series to 80 episodes would have been so much better.

That's where I'm at. I have no issue with how things played out, but wish they could have done it over the course of more episodes.

If/when GRRM finishes the books, I'm hoping this will be taken care of.

 

[Dandy]

This is my read on it too, and ultimately the show and story feels really nihilistic.

My question is actually how long Bran's rule lasts. I think it's less than 10 years.

1. Bran is an incredibly weak king. He has almost no claim to the throne (by Westerosi standards), he is unable to sire children, and apparently he's going to be a puppet ruler where Tyrion controls things, who is an unpopular guy with almost no power base since the entire Lannister army is decimated. Also, Jon didn't denounce his claim, he was punished, giving anybody wanting to challenge Bran's claim all kinds of ammo.
2. Dorne is probably EASILY the stronger power left in Westeros. I can't see them sitting there like you said.
3. Yara had a promise of independence. The Iron Born are not going to sit on that. Plus, there is absolutely nothing to stop them from reaving from the wall to Dorne.
4. For all we know the Dothraki are still there. That's going to go well. Probably the largest and most fearsome standing army in the country by a mile.
5. The Starks just basically rule everything? That's going to rub a lot of people the wrong way.
6. The Iron Bank is still owed a TON of money from the crown for the hiring of the golden company. The tax base of Westeros is basically destroyed... how is Bran going to pay that back...with Bronn as your master of coin?
7. Bronn is basically the ruler of a depopulated area? So the Lannisters just killed everybody in the Reach apparently.

I mean it's hard to imagine just how destroyed Westeros is right now outside of Dorne and maybe the Vale, however I have to assume most of the knights of the Vale were killed in the battle of Winterfell.

1. Bran was elected. No "claim" is necessary. Right? And did that dude know what was going to happen the entire time?! if yes, he knowingly let hundreds of thousands of people die.
2. Dorne getting cut out of the show for so long then randomly a prince is at the end scene is weird.
3. Agree.
4. They left King's Landing. Maybe to go back to the Great Grass Sea?
5. GRRM was going to call the last book "A Time for Wolves" but changed it to "A Dream of Spring." Maybe to avoid the books foreshadowing the Stark's "winning" in the end.
6. Agree.
7. Agree.

 

[coolerifyoudid]

They left King's Landing at the same time but they are going their separate ways.

Thanks. I couldn't remember if I saw them on the ships or not. Since the Dothraki won't follow a leader that can't ride a horse, I'm having doubts that they will back an elected king in a wheel chair whose 'brother' murdered their Khaleesi.

And Westeros seems to be a much easier place to live given the food supply. I'm not seeing their incentive to go back across the sea when they could just stay put and do Dothraki stuff pretty much unchecked.

Granted, I'm not sure how much of an impact they would have since I have no idea how many are left. The number is somewhere between 42 and 95,000 I think.

 

[Bret44]

What about Gilly? What about Sam's unborn child?

Davos and Sam are the worst "spouses" in Westroes. Davos left his wife years ago and doesn't ever mention her, and Sam left his pregnant lady to be a Grand Maester? What the hell dudes?

 

[Dandy]

What about Gilly? What about Sam's unborn child?

Davos and Sam are the worst "spouses" in Westroes. Davos left his wife years ago and doesn't ever mention her, and Sam left his pregnant lady to be a Grand Maester? What the hell dudes?

His name is Jonwell Tarly and he's the heir to the Melted Throne.

 

[Trice]

So how do we all perceive Dany's "madness" now that we can look back on the entire season?

Because last week she looked insane. Like Mad Queen insane. And that might have been a bit forced or rushed but it was also foreshadowed with years of talk about the Mad King and gods flipping coins.

But last night she seemed pretty...rational. Obviously her choice to kill thousands of innocents in King's Landing was awful, but it sounded like tactical vengeance, deployed more purposefully then we'd been led to believe in the previous episode.

Last night she sounded more megalomaniacal, with an attitude of, "I want to build a good world for people. I know what's best for them, but if they don't like it I'll crush them anyway." Which seems different to me than being insane like her father.

Maybe I'm wrong. But looking back I think that's the type of subtlety that got lost in the speed of this season.

 

[isutrevman]

1. Bran was elected. No "claim" is necessary. Right? And did that dude know what was going to happen the entire time?! if yes, he knowingly let hundreds of thousands of people die.
2. Dorne getting cut out of the show for so long then randomly a prince is at the end scene is weird.
3. Agree.
4. They left King's Landing. Maybe to go back to the Great Grass Sea?
5. GRRM was going to call the last book "A Time for Wolves" but changed it to "A Dream of Spring." Maybe to avoid the books foreshadowing the Stark's "winning" in the end.
6. Agree.
7. Agree.

My take on #1. Bran might have known that Daenerys would burn down the city, but what was he supposed to do to stop it? He could try to convince people but they wouldn't be able to stop her anyway. He knew the only one that could get close enough to kill her while she was unprotected was Jon Snow. The only way to convince him that she wasn't fit to be queen was to allow him to see what she had become.

I agree no "claim" was necessary for him. He was chosen by the most powerful families left. That's a stronger "claim" than anyone has had, really. Someone could still try to overthrow him, but they would likely face fighting the other 6 kingdoms in the process. His rule is more stable than when various houses were constantly fighting for the throne like before. Yara could try to split with the Iron Isles, but she already agreed to stay as part of the 6 kingdoms. It's not like she was forced into it. Same thing with Dorne.

 

[coolerifyoudid]

What about Gilly? What about Sam's unborn child?

Davos and Sam are the worst "spouses" in Westroes. Davos left his wife years ago and doesn't ever mention her, and Sam left his pregnant lady to be a Grand Maester? What the hell dudes?

Worst? Cersei (boinks brother, murders husband) and Ramsey (rewrote the book on domestic abuse) take offense at their omission.

 

[Trice]

Was Dany burning the city or Jon murdering Dany the final "oh ****" moment the show spoiled from the books? (The other two were Shireen's burning and HOld the DoOR.)

No idea, I'd love to hear what this third moment is supposed to be too. Because for as many shocking moments and horrors as this show had, neither Shireen nor Hodor were especially huge moments for me. Maybe they felt more important to people who watched the show in real time and had longer to absorb them.

 

[Dandy]

My take on #1. Bran might have known that Daenerys would burn down the city, but what was he supposed to do to stop it? He could try to convince people but they wouldn't be able to stop her anyway. He knew the only one that could get close enough to kill her while she was unprotected was Jon Snow. The only way to convince him that she wasn't fit to be queen was to allow him to see what she had become.

I agree no "claim" was necessary for him. He was chosen by the most powerful families left. That's a stronger "claim" than anyone has had, really. Someone could still try to overthrow him, but they would likely face fighting the other 6 kingdoms in the process. His rule is more stable than when various houses were constantly fighting for the throne like before. Yara could try to split with the Iron Isles, but she already agreed to stay as part of the 6 kingdoms. It's not like she was forced into it. Same thing with Dorne.

He's the most powerful "magician" alive. Warg into Drogon or something!

D&D loved tv time for the dragons but avoided the Direwolves, Arya face changes and useful Bran warging after Hodor dies. Boooooo.

 

[Bret44]

Worst? Cersei (boinks brother, murders husband) and Ramsey (rewrote the book on domestic abuse) take offense at their omission.

hy·per·bo·le
/hīˈpərbəlē/
Learn to pronounce
noun

1. exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
   "he vowed revenge with oaths and hyperboles"
   synonyms: exaggeration, overstatement, magnification, amplification, embroidery, embellishment, overplaying, excess, overkill; More

 

[isutrevman]

So how do we all perceive Dany's "madness" now that we can look back on the entire season?

Because last week she looked insane. Like Mad Queen insane. And that might have been a bit forced or rushed but it was also foreshadowed with years of talk about the Mad King and gods flipping coins.

But last night she seemed pretty...rational. Obviously her choice to kill thousands of innocents in King's Landing was awful, but it sounded like tactical vengeance, deployed more purposefully then we'd been led to believe in the previous episode.

Last night she sounded more megalomaniacal, with an attitude of, "I want to build a good world for people. I know what's best for them, but if they don't like it I'll crush them anyway." Which seems different to me than being insane like her father.

Maybe I'm wrong. But looking back I think that's the type of subtlety that got lost in the speed of this season.

Tyrion described her perfectly to Jon. She had become convinced that all her actions were righteous because she had done some truly great things by freeing people from tyrants in Essos. She was convinced that everything she did in King's Landing and would do in the future was justified because she was going to make the world a better place, and could do no wrong.

Jon went to talk some sense into her one last time, but she basically repeated exactly what Tyrion said when she described her burning down King's Landing as necessary to put an end to the tyrany. She really thought it was justified for doing the "greater good". I don't think Jon had decided to kill her until that moment. He realized she was too far gone.

 

[isutrevman]

He's the most powerful "magician" alive. Warg into Drogon or something!

D&D loved tv time for the dragons but avoided the Direwolves, Arya face changes and useful Bran warging after Hodor dies. Boooooo.

That's true too.

 

[Mr Janny]

So how do we all perceive Dany's "madness" now that we can look back on the entire season?

Because last week she looked insane. Like Mad Queen insane. And that might have been a bit forced or rushed but it was also foreshadowed with years of talk about the Mad King and gods flipping coins.

But last night she seemed pretty...rational. Obviously her choice to kill thousands of innocents in King's Landing was awful, but it sounded like tactical vengeance, deployed more purposefully then we'd been led to believe in the previous episode.

Last night she sounded more megalomaniacal, with an attitude of, "I want to build a good world for people. I know what's best for them, but if they don't like it I'll crush them anyway." Which seems different to me than being insane like her father.

Maybe I'm wrong. But looking back I think that's the type of subtlety that got lost in the speed of this season.

I'm not so sure it's all that different. Her father thought that the things he was doing were right and justified as well. Madness is in the eye of the beholder, I guess. Megalomania/insanity/vengeance, whatever you want to call it, it was clear that the only way Dany knew how to be in power was through violence. Across the sea, it was obfuscated because her violence was directed at those who "deserved" it, but it was clear that she only knew one way to deal with opposition. When you're a hammer....

 

[Trice]

Tyrion described her perfectly to Jon. She had become convinced that all her actions were righteous because she had done some truly great things by freeing people from tyrants in Essos. She was convinced that everything she did in King's Landing and would do in the future was justified because she was going to make the world a better place, and could do no wrong.

Jon went to talk some sense into her one last time, but she basically repeated exactly what Tyrion said when she described her burning down King's Landing as necessary to put an end to the tyrany. She really thought it was justified for doing the "greater good". I don't think Jon had decided to kill her until that moment. He realized she was too far gone.

I'm not so sure it's all that different. Her father thought that the things he was doing were right and justified as well. Madness is in the eye of the beholder, I guess. Megalomania/insanity/vengeance, whatever you want to call it, it was clear that the only way Dany knew how to be in power was through violence. Across the sea, it was obfuscated because she her violence was directed at those who "deserved" it, but it was clear that she only knew one way to deal with opposition. When you're a hammer....

Great responses. I want to think about this some more. Because I saw her reaction at the end of E4 and her face in E5 right before she burns the city as the show portraying her as insane and I'm having a hard time squaring that with what we saw last night, which is its own form of insanity, but different I guess.

But that could absolutely be a me problem and not a show problem.

 

[coolerifyoudid]

So how do we all perceive Dany's "madness" now that we can look back on the entire season?

Because last week she looked insane. Like Mad Queen insane. And that might have been a bit forced or rushed but it was also foreshadowed with years of talk about the Mad King and gods flipping coins.

But last night she seemed pretty...rational. Obviously her choice to kill thousands of innocents in King's Landing was awful, but it sounded like tactical vengeance, deployed more purposefully then we'd been led to believe in the previous episode.

Last night she sounded more megalomaniacal, with an attitude of, "I want to build a good world for people. I know what's best for them, but if they don't like it I'll crush them anyway." Which seems different to me than being insane like her father.

Maybe I'm wrong. But looking back I think that's the type of subtlety that got lost in the speed of this season.

I took it like last week's Dany showed the world that she was capable of irrational madness, but it was not a full-blown fall into insanity. Her actions, coupled with her repeated views of how her reign was going to be obtained, set the stage for her not being the ruler that she was perceived to be.

When I look at the her whole body of work, the change really wasn't as drastic as I initially thought. I would have preferred a different trigger (like the aforementioned script change where Rhaegal gets killed by Euron after the bells were sounded), but it wasn't as bad as a lot of people are making it, IMO.

I thought the scene last night with her essentially pleading with Jon to be her ally after she knew she ****** up, only to have Jon kill her was done well. She felt alone through most of the series and ended up that way in the end.

I agree with the general consensus is that more episodes to smooth her transition would have been nice, but I'm ok with how they utilized the time they had.