Big 12 tournament matchup vs Baylor

Cydkar

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The it’s hard to beat a team 3 times argument is stupid
It truly is. It's lazy and not true.

Well, it is true if stated BEFORE the 1st matchup (statistics) but after 2-0, the team that has already won twice wins the 3rd matchup more often than not.
 
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Cychl82

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It would be nice to get a crew that calls it tight. Baylor loves to shove underneath the hoop. Vital should have had 4 fouls in the first half in Ames.

It would also be nice if our guys actually jumped for rebounds. Wigginton jumps, but he's a guard. Jacobson jumps, but he has a 20-inch vertical. The rest of them wait for it to bounce into their hands. Gotta think Prohm is focusing on rebounding in practice this week.

We've put Babb on Mason in the first two games. I'd think about moving him on to Butler, but I doubt we do. One thing we can't do is put Wigginton on Butler. I've never seen a guy lose so many shooters in a season. Prohm is going to have to actually coach in this matchup. That's scary right now.

I was thinking the same thing about Wigginton on defense. Not only is his on the ball defense horrible...not as bad as Lewis I don't think, but Wigginton always loses his man in transition as well as being that guy who just stands and watches 2 passes away thinking his man only stays in one spot. Its really really terrible to watch and I would bet if we notice that, Prohm has coached him on it a million times and he just doesn't care/listen or doesn't want to get better on that end.
 

WastedTalent

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It truly is. It's lazy and not true.

Well, it is true if stated BEFORE the 1st matchup (statistics) but after 2-0, the team that has already won twice wins the 3rd matchup more often than not.
We've already discussed this. You're using statistics that includes mostly games in which one team was heavily favored in the first two matchups.

There's likely still an advantage for the team that is 2-0, but it's nothing close to the high percentage that Blum tweeted out.
 

Cydkar

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We've already discussed this. You're using statistics that includes mostly games in which one team was heavily favored in the first two matchups.

There's likely still an advantage for the team that is 2-0, but it's nothing close to the high percentage that Blum tweeted out.
Truth ^^

I never mentioned Blum or any percentages. I didn't even know Blum had discussed it.
 

WastedTalent

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Truth ^^

I never mentioned Blum or any percentages. I didn't even know Blum had discussed it.


No one is saying Iowa St has an advantage because they're 0-2 against Baylor, but I don't think it's 75% likely Baylor wins.

There's also these numbers
If two teams are fairly evenly matched, it's unlikely for either to win 3 times. The win probability has to be about 80% for one team before they have a greater than 50% chance of winning all three games. Does anyone think Baylor has been 80%+ to win the first two games?

In CBB, two teams would only play a third time in a conference tournament. Teams that went 2-0 against several opponents are likely to be high seeds and higher quality teams. Teams that went 0-2 against several opponents are likely to be low seeds and lower quality teams. When a really good team plays a really bad team, which is often the case in early rounds of conference tourneys, then there is a reasonable expectation that they go 3-0/0-3.

The really good team needs to be a 90% favorite in each game to have a 73% chance of going 3-0 against another team.

Basically back to 50/50 type game. Unless of course one thinks Iowa St is just broken at this point, then you throw out previous matchups.
 

Cydkar

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No one is saying Iowa St has an advantage because they're 0-2 against Baylor, but I don't think it's 75% likely Baylor wins.

There's also these numbers




Basically back to 50/50 type game. Unless of course one thinks Iowa St is just broken at this point, then you throw out previous matchups.


My response is to the "tough to beat a team 3 times" statement. It's not. Even at 50/50 it's a false statement. If we win it's not because we lost the previous 2 times.
 
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moores2

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I'll preface this with saying, I highly doubt it happens, but if there was EVER a time this season to play two bigs, it's gotta be Thursday. I know, it completely changes the offense, and has not been done for a single minute this year, but maybe it's time to send them out there, and just say "go play basketball." According to some, that's how Prohm coaches anyway.

I really have no clue what the deal is with Lard. If he's available, he's likely still on Prohm's short leash, so now's the time to use him in short spurts alongside Conditt and Jacobsen.

My preference would be to still start Jacobsen, and play Conditt and Lard together for a short stretch. Play them with Shayok, Wigginton, and NWB so that hopefully the offense doesn't lag while they're out there.

Conditt and Jacobson shared the floor at Texas. For a very short time.
 
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greatshu

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Depends on whether Makai Mason plays or not. Our guards struggles to stay ahead of Makai.
 

TheHelgo

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count me in the camp that thinks we can and should win this game. Forget about the odds of a team winning 3 times, etc. We nearly won in Waco when things were going well, and game 2 in Ames was when we were completely broken. Meaning, we could as easily be 2-0 as 0-2 Add in that the game is likely to be heavily Cyclone fans versus Baylor fans (nearly a home game), and that team focus and effort should be back (making an assumption here i realize), I bet we win comfortably. Will be close for most, but we pull away late.
 

Cyclonepride

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Depends on whether Makai Mason plays or not. Our guards struggles to stay ahead of Makai.

Personal opinion, but I think the effectiveness of our guards (in guarding the pick and roll) has been hampered by ineffective play of their help from inside. We did that better against Tech, and earlier in the year.
 

WhatchaGonnaDo

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My response is to the "tough to beat a team 3 times" statement. It's not. Even at 50/50 it's a false statement. If we win it's not because we lost the previous 2 times.
It's like saying the next coin flip is going to be tails because the first two were heads.

That's just not how it works.
 

RagnarLothbrok

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  • Conditt, Jacobson, and Lard need to get at the glass. Don't need to be so aggressive that we are out of place. I would trade blocks for more Rebs. They are tops in the nation in ORebs, while we are not good at DRebs.
  • THT and Wigginton hit their FT's
  • Shayok does Shayok things
  • Haliburton going off for 3 when open
All that said, there's a reason they're #5. That chode yelling on senior night might have been the catalyst this team needed to create a true brotherhood. Us vs the World is very powerful.
 

Cyclonepride

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  • Conditt, Jacobson, and Lard need to get at the glass. Don't need to be so aggressive that we are out of place. I would trade blocks for more Rebs. They are tops in the nation in ORebs, while we are not good at DRebs.
  • THT and Wigginton hit their FT's
  • Shayok does Shayok things
  • Haliburton going off for 3 when open
All that said, there's a reason they're #5. That chode yelling on senior night might have been the catalyst this team needed to create a true brotherhood. Us vs the World is very powerful.

Small adjustment to that though (IMO), the big needs to box out, and the guards need to come in to rebound the misses. That combination would likely keep the rebounding numbers closer to even. Half the problem is the big having to help stop the drive and getting out of position for the rebound as well, so the guard keeping in front of his man (or at least enough that help doesn't need to come) would make a big difference too.
 

CascadeClone

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Personal opinion, but I think the effectiveness of our guards (in guarding the pick and roll) has been hampered by ineffective play of their help from inside. We did that better against Tech, and earlier in the year.

What help would that be?
Lard blocks and disrupts shots, but then is totally out of position so we give up 2nd chance points 80% of the time. Plus he only was playing 10 minutes per game, which seems to have gone down to 0 minutes per game. No help there.

MJ always seems to be in no-mans land, halfway between helping and staying with his guy. Doesn't have the quicks, ups, or height to compensate, but he does a good job of getting in position to rebound - just in time to watch the ball go thru the net. Not much help there either.

Conditt is our best help / rim protector IMHO. He is okay at disrupting shots, and probably as good at getting into position to rebound as MJ. But he does make a lot of freshman mistakes. So he is probably serviceable in this aspect, but let's not pretend he is Kelvin Cato either.

I wonder what putting MJ and Conditt on the floor at the same time would be like? It would help with the rebounding, but you'd need to do some very different things offensively. Maybe next year that is our "big" package, vs going small.
 

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