Black Panther

[Triggermv]

I posted this in its usual spot in the MCU thread, but I figured my review would be worth posting here too:

I got the chance to see Black Panther last night, so I figured I'd post my usual review for those interested (non-spoilery). Overall, I liked the movie, but just didn't love it. Starting off with the good stuff, I thought the characters were great, particularly Chadwick Boseman as Black Panther, Letitia Wright as Shuri, and Michael B Jordan as Killmonger. There was clear motives behind everyone. Shuri added some fun to a movie that needed something lighter, T'Challa was solid, even though I actually liked him more in Civil War, and I thought Michael B. Jordan was one of the better Marvel villains out there. Like the Vulture in Spider-Man Homecoming, Killmonger was a sympathetic villain with clear motives. Secondly, what was pretty good characters also led into a pretty decent story overall too. One kind of weird thing that throws you off at first is that this movie doesn't even really have the feel of a superhero movie, but is more like an Afro-black culture battle for kingship, power, and against racial injustices, with a bit of a James Bond flare. This was not what I expected at first, but once you adjust those expectations, it isn't too bad. Lastly, I do love the fact that this movie is a unabashedly an Afro-black culture movie with no attempt to be anything different. As a 33-year old white male, I have my superheroes and now it is time for others to get theirs. So, at its core, the strengths of the movie by far was its solid story and great characters, which is kind of what Marvel does best and par for the course. As for anything above par, I'd probably throw the villain on there, which is somewhat a testament to Killmonger, but also somewhat a testament to a long legacy of below-par Marvel villains.

Moving on to the not-so-good, while I found the story to be solid, something just seemed really off on the pacing. For one, did anyone else find the first 30 minutes of the movie to be SUPER SLOW??? Compared to other Marvel movies, this one took me a long while to get into, and maybe that was partially due to the expectation adjustments I mentioned up above, maybe not. Even the rest of the movie did and didn't flow like I expected, which at this point, I still just can't pinpoint why. Moving on, while there were characters I loved, there were others I found to just be alright and somewhat overrated like Lupito Nyong'o's Nakia, Danai Gurira's Okoye, and Daniel Kaluuya's W-Kabi. I know some people will call me crazy as these are probably some of the best actors in the movie, but I almost found their roles somewhat forced at times. Shoot, I almost forgot Okoye and W-Kabi had a relationship throughout the movie, and there was just something unnatural to me with the the two women's battle warrior roles. I'm a big Danai fan and I love her similar role in The Walking Dead much more than her role here. Again, I seem to be in the minority here and recognize that. Its just how I felt. Lastly, probably my biggest disappointment from this movie was actually all the action scenes believe it or not. For one, I loved how grounded, yet powered the Black Panther we saw in Civil War was, but this movie takes him to levels that are a bit too high and over-the-top for me, mostly due to his new suit (felt somewhat the same way in Spider-Man Homecoming). Minus the flying, the dude it pretty much invincible Superman now with no consequences to anything (example: falling scene), not to mention his ability to leap and fly around now has gone about 3 levels up. I get that they are trying to prove their advanced technology levels, but sometimes simpler is a bit better. I loved his suit and part in Civil War more so than in this movie. Secondly, to combine with that same over-the-top action came a lot of sub-par CGI in my mind, and I think the first problem somewhat fed the second one. The more you get out there, the more you have to use CGI in lieu of practical stunts. Shoot, add in the new color energy blaster component to his suit and at times, I swear I was watching Tron and not Black Panther, which I didn't find to be a good thing.

In the end, it is a good thing this movie relied more on its story than the action as I haven't been this disappointed in Marvel's action sequences since Age of Ultron, and both Ultron and this movie fell into some of the same pitfalls. Maybe me not loving it was also a part of too high of expectations fed by widespread media positivity, particularly on Rotten Tomatoes. As much as I hate to say it and as much as people probably would not admit it, like The Last Jedi, I do suspect that this movie's positive reviews may be a bit shaded by happiness surrounding some of its progressive agendas more so than just analyzing the movie for what it is. It is a good story and good movie, but just not a great one, at least in my eyes. Then, after that, the poor action takes it down another notch. Now, that isn't to discount some of the cool things this movie does through its themes and representation because a lot of those things are just great in their own regard.

Again, I'm a 33 year old middle-class white dude who has seen myself represented countless times in TV and movies for my entire life, while others have not. This is their time and it is long overdue, at least as a main character. I'll even admit that there is probably a significant part of why I didn't love this movie was probably simply due to the fact that I am not the target audience, and that is okay, and kind of weird to say for a Marvel movie, which are known for being as widespread targeting as possible with their audiences (they like to make lots of money). Maybe it is cool to see them being okay with a narrower target this time to make up for some things that are overdue. This movie is what it is and isn't ashamed of it, so at a minimum, I respect that. For those who absolutely loved it, I'm happy for you guys. For me, I'll be tossing it into the fairly wide good, just not great category, similar to its other peers like Dr. Strange and Age of Ultron. That isn't anything to scoff at either as I still love watching good movies.

After another day of thought, I will say this about my review. I'm pretty sure this is going to be one of the Marvel movies that grows on me more with time and where certain things will hit a little harder with me the second time around. I'll see. Spider-Man Homecoming was another one of those movies for me. You can read my initial review of that one in the MCU forum, but that has grown to be one of my most rewatchable MCU movies. The only thing that probably won't change is my critique of the action scenes and the CGI.

 

[State43]

Just saw this and I’m glad I was worried for nothing. Overall I thought it was great. Good action, unique and interesting visuals and a lot of interesting and likeable characters. One drawback for me has to be Jordan B Anthony. I thought is acting was off though his action was good.
The woman that played the Sister was great, one of my favs.
Black Panther is a top character in the MCU for me and look forward even more to see him and Wakonda in infinity war.

 

[coolerifyoudid]

Saw it yesterday and I liked most of it, but a few things kept me from loving it.

Spoiler

Maybe it was the theater I was in but the opening jungle rescue scene was really dark. I had a hard time deciphering the action. I got a general feel of it all, but I had to guess at what exactly happened during a few of the scenes.

The casino scene felt and looked like a Bond scene. I don't remember the movie, but it was really familiar. A friend I went with said the same thing.

Killmonger was a little too 'Wesley Snipes in Demolitian Man' for me. He was a badass and brash, but the dialogue went over the top to really punch you in the face with how badass he was.

My final issues was that Killmonger's final words felt very abrupt and had a different tone than the rest of the movie. The focal point of his motive was revenge against Wacanda for killing his father and their unwillingness to share their wealth and technology while others struggled and suffered. He studied how to disrupt governments and mastered it. Yet his final words were not about his father or Wakanda, but they were about how it was better to die than to become a prisoner/slave. I get that it all ties together with his father's beliefs and is the genesis to his own eventual motivations, but it felt out of place for some reason.

I overall really enjoyed the movie outside of those few things. The acting and story were really well done. I enjoyed the final fight scene less than every other one in the movie, but it was still a cleverly choreographed scene.

Without knowing a lot about the character beforehand, I'm much more aware of how he will contribute in the Infinity War now and he could end up being one of my favorites before it's all said and done.

Final commentary: Marvel continues to impress with their strong female characters as well. Having a daughter, I cannot stress how cool it is to see her really embrace a female character's strength, intelligence and humor versus focusing on how they look.

 

[Frak]

Liked it but not enough to call it my favorite MCU movie.

Yeah, I thought it was just OK. Didn't really care for the political overtones, although I get why they were included. I thought it was going to be an entertaining movie with good action and cool characters and it was. I don't see why it's such a big deal, but then I'm not black. You see on Twitter, people calling for a Storm movie because black super heroes are killing it. Personally, I don't see Storm as that interesting of a character. Plus, I didn't go see Black Panther because it was a "black" movie and I didn't avoid it for that reason either. I bought tickets (and so did millions of other white people) because it looked like a fun movie and I liked the character. But there seems to be a need in society today to make everything about race.

I didn't think that it held a candle to Thor Ragnarok or Guardians 1, but there's no shame in that.

 

[Al_4_State]

This movie has come with a lot of social issues, racial, orientaion-al, etc.. People just like to *****.

I saw Ben Shapiro said yesterday:
"Everyone in the media is talking about the most important thing that has ever happened in the history of humanity, or at least since Caitlyn Jenner became a woman — a transgender woman," Shapiro said. "And that of course is the release of 'Black Panther'. This is the most important moment in black American history, not Martin Luther King, not Frederick Douglass, not the Civil War, not the end of Jim Crow, none of that. When Obama was president, we were told it meant everything," Shapiro said, "And then, it turns out, it didn't mean anything, because we needed Chadwick Boseman to somehow make sure that black people felt accepted in American society, because a bunch of white executives at Marvel green lit a film about black people in a fictional country in Africa."

I'd be sayin the same thing to Ben. Just let the black community be happy that they finally have a Feature Length, Black Super Hero movie(No, Steel, Blade and Blankman are not true superheros, sorry) And people (on both sides) need to stop making it so political or polarizing. Its a f****** super hero movie.

This is a pretty prime example of why I can't stand Ben Shapiro, and believe his intellectual prowess is overrated.

He knows god damn well no one is saying this other than a few nut jobs, but he can't help himself from playing to his base rather than accurately represent reality.

 

[State43]

This is a pretty prime example of why I can't stand Ben Shapiro, and believe his intellectual prowess is overrated.

He knows god damn well no one is saying this other than a few nut jobs, but he can't help himself from playing to his base rather than accurately represent reality.

It's part that, and part experiences/feedback. He is dug in deep amongst the SJW's, feminists, BLM and their counterparts. A giant bubble of oppression olympics. And I wish it was just a few nutjobs but there is quite a large amount of nutjobs on both sides of the argument.. From the SJWs to the hatred of anything that glorifies a culture not American. I still think he is very bright have yet to see anyone really make him look foolish in a debate or forum.

 

[Die4Cy]

The best thing about having an 11 year old is that I can bring him along to get out on superhero movies without having to feel weird about it.

This movie looked fantastic. Other than the car chase and final battle scenes there were no moments where the CGI was distracting, which is sometimes a main criticism of Marvel movies.

They did a great job of developing the lead characters to the point where my son asked if we could leave the theatre for a few minutes when Black Panther character was at the lowest point (no spoiler but if you saw it you know what I mean.)

I did feel like it borrowed a bit too much of the 007 formula at one point, but it did serve the story.

Wanted more of the bad guy from the beginning, really well done.

I was bracing for the overt PC stuff but just never felt it. Nothing seemed out of line.

It's a superhero movie, so you have to be able to suspend your disbelief. And there were places where it felt like the screenwriters just sort of punted when they could have done a better job of explaining. But overall the script was pretty tight and probably a great sign of things to come from Marvel under Disney's management.

One of the best Marvel movies in years.

 

[BryceC]

I love 007 so hearing all of the comparisons actually gets me really excited.

 

[Rural]

It gets thrown around way too much but this movie is a cultural game-changer.

 

[madguy30]

I saw this last night. Fun movie.

Not quite as standard as the other Marvel movies for plot and such.

I want a pet rhino.

 

[Diggame]

Saw it yesterday and I liked most of it, but a few things kept me from loving it.

Spoiler

Maybe it was the theater I was in but the opening jungle rescue scene was really dark. I had a hard time deciphering the action. I got a general feel of it all, but I had to guess at what exactly happened during a few of the scenes.

The casino scene felt and looked like a Bond scene. I don't remember the movie, but it was really familiar. A friend I went with said the same thing.

Killmonger was a little too 'Wesley Snipes in Demolitian Man' for me. He was a badass and brash, but the dialogue went over the top to really punch you in the face with how badass he was.

My final issues was that Killmonger's final words felt very abrupt and had a different tone than the rest of the movie. The focal point of his motive was revenge against Wacanda for killing his father and their unwillingness to share their wealth and technology while others struggled and suffered. He studied how to disrupt governments and mastered it. Yet his final words were not about his father or Wakanda, but they were about how it was better to die than to become a prisoner/slave. I get that it all ties together with his father's beliefs and is the genesis to his own eventual motivations, but it felt out of place for some reason.

I overall really enjoyed the movie outside of those few things. The acting and story were really well done. I enjoyed the final fight scene less than every other one in the movie, but it was still a cleverly choreographed scene.

Without knowing a lot about the character beforehand, I'm much more aware of how he will contribute in the Infinity War now and he could end up being one of my favorites before it's all said and done.

Final commentary: Marvel continues to impress with their strong female characters as well. Having a daughter, I cannot stress how cool it is to see her really embrace a female character's strength, intelligence and humor versus focusing on how they look.

If you misunderstood Killmongers last words you didn't understand the cultural dynamic of the movie

 

[madguy30]

Without knowing who was in it, I thought Michael B. Jordan was a cross between a Wayans brother (similar voice too) and that forward for UNR last March.

Does anyone else's face light up when they see Forrest Whitaker show up in a movie?

 

[coolerifyoudid]

If you misunderstood Killmongers last words you didn't understand the cultural dynamic of the movie

Ha, no. His last words weren't cryptic and I understood the context in which they were delivered just fine. Please don't mistake my criticism of the movie as a criticism of the message. I enjoyed having a villain that you couldn't truly hate because you understood and empathized with his motives.

(Spoilers ahead)

I guess maybe I just wasn't overly happy with how his final scenes played out. Minimal action, probably one of the more boring action sequences in the movie IMO, T'Challa lands the final blow, Killmonger says the cheesy "That was a good move" line, T'Challa carries him to view Wakanda's beauty, we get to sympathize with Killmonger one more time, and then he overacts his last line.

I don't have a good alternative ending or dialogue to offer up, but something about it didn't hold up with the rest of the movie. Unfortunately, that was at the end and stuck with me more.

 

[snowcraig2.0]

It was a solid B. Ragnorok was better.

 

[cyLKUIF]

Obviously, it’s just personal opinion, but everything I’ve read has praised MBJ’s portrayal of the villain. What were you not impressed with out of curiosity? I haven’t seen it yet.

Sorry just now seeing this. His acting felt forced in some parts but I liked his fight scenes

 

[Rural]

His acting is what it is but this is the rarest of rare comic book villains.

His point of view was 100% truth.

Now, the old "let's destroy the world with this tech for revenge" got him killed but what a refreshing turn for a comic book movie.

 

[cyIclSoneU]

Now, the old "let's destroy the world with this tech for revenge" got him killed but what a refreshing turn for a comic book movie.

Don't think his message was to destroy the world or even a message of revenge. He wanted to arm what he perceived as oppressed populations including black Americans so they could gain power for the first time.

Killmonger was the most interesting part of this movie and I wish they went a little more in depth with him.

 

[CycloneErik]

Phenomenal film.
I never sit down to rank the movies, because I don't see the point of making that list. This was a phenomenal film that worked in the character's background with the history it came from and a villain that made sense.

And it made Klaw cool. His singing doesn't scream "master of sound," but his character work and abilities were fantastic.


Back before the MCU, Spider-Man 2 did the impossible and made Doc Ock cool. Now they've turned the trick with Loki, the Vulture, Klaw, and Killmonger (who I'd never read before).
And now comes the biggest film yet.

 

[BryceC]

MCU movies and comic book movies have a villain problem in general. Most of them suck. For a long time they were giant amorphous blobs like the thing at the end of Hellboy. If we start getting bad guys with actual motivations that are grounded then I'll be a lot happier with the genre in general.

For the record, Thanos (I'm in love with Death) doesn't exactly count either. Cosmic Marvel is a little much for me in general. I'm a pretty harsh critic of GoT, but what they do get right, is that the characters are very grounded, and then the supernatural stuff is kind of a garnish to the meat and potatoes of the characters. If Marvel can find a way to do that, they have some very interesting characters to play with now that people don't have as much emotional ties to. I'm sure there are hardcore Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Guardians of the Galaxy, etc. fans out there, but let's be honest, these are very fringe characters in the Marvel universe. Those characters don't have to do quite as much fan service stuff because there are less fans to please.

 

[The_Architect]

Saw it last night, by far my favorite in the MCU. The sister really stole the show for me, she was hilarious.