Is recruiting that much better?

[Beyerball]

Just wanted to throw this out there as a discussion topic. I don't know enough about recruiting to give a very informed opinion, so I'm willing to be persuaded either way.

It just seems like a lot of the recruits we're getting are about the same level of recruits that Rhoads would get. Mostly 3 stars, with an occasional 2 star or 4 star thrown in there. And we're beating out roughly the same quality of teams for a lot of our recruits as we used to as well. Maybe that isn't accurate, so I'm up for debate on that as well.

What I'm hoping is that this coaching staff has a better eye for talent, and is better at developing that talent. What I mean by that is.... let's say there are 2 OL with nearly the same identical ratings, and the same level of offers. I'm hoping that this staff is better at judging which of these 2 recruits has a better chance at making it at the next level, and therefore knows which one to offer and which one not to offer.... if that makes sense? Some 3 stars are going to be studs, and some are going to be duds. If your coaches have good eyes for talent, then they will be better at determining that.

And then, once they are on campus, and this one is huge..... are they going to be good at developing them?

You hear on these boards a lot that CMC is such a better recruiter than Rhoads was. I know it's too early to know for sure if that's true, but I'm just curious why people are believing that already so early into CMC's career here? Are we getting higher rated 3 stars (closer to 4 stars) than Rhoads did? What is it?

First off..i havent seen many 2 star kids brought in by this staff..thats one. Second, the level of 3 star kids is better than anything CPR brought in overall as a class last 2 years. Third, the number of P5 offers the past 2 classes have seen is a record for ISU and its not close. I dont even look at stars anymore..all i wanna know is who else wanted the kids and this staff is landing a lot of kids that other P5 schools wanted. Last, this staff is bringing in far more higher level OL and DL recruits who are actually making it to campus than CPR and staff ever did.

Recruiting is night and day with this staff over CPR staff.

 

[Clonefan32]

People realize there is a broad range of rankings within the star designation, right?

 

[jburke]

First off..i havent seen many 2 star kids brought in by this staff..thats one. Second, the level of 3 star kids is better than anything CPR brought in overall as a class last 2 years. Third, the number of P5 offers the past 2 classes have seen is a record for ISU and its not close. I dont even look at stars anymore..all i wanna know is who else wanted the kids and this staff is landing a lot of kids that other P5 schools wanted. Last, this staff is bringing in far more higher level OL and DL recruits who are actually making it to campus than CPR and staff ever did.

Recruiting is night and day with this staff over CPR staff.

The truth, and the the biggest difference from a class perspective....

 

[Rural]

That list can expand with some others Campbell and staff have brought in also.

The number of recruits that never played a single down at ISU under Rhoads was a complete backbreaker. So many misses.

Right, cutting way down on guys who have no chance will pay dividends a few years down the road.

 

[madguy30]

I was going to get excited about perceived improvement in the recruiting however I came to my senses after going back over the last five years. Looking back over the past 5 years (13-17) classes based on 247 5 stars, 4 stars and 3 stars the breakdown is:

Alabama 5* 27 4* 73
LSU 5* 9 4* 72
Ohio State 5* 9 4* 79
Fl State 5* 13 4* 57
Oklahoma 5* 2 4* 52
Texas 5* 2 4* 52
West Virg 5* 0 4* 9
Iowa 5* 1 4* 2
Iowa State 5* 0 4* 2

In addition the average ranking of the players has not changed greatly. I have resigned myself to another "Iowa State" season unless the staff can create football players.

You didn't put the 3 stars, and didn't compare the amount of 3 stars now compared to what CPR did, and you didn't acknowledge that the Oline and pretty much every offensive position looked better last year, nor did you mention how CPR did jack sh*t with any higher recruits besides 'hit 'em coming off the bus'.

Of course ISU isn't going to get the same range as the blue bloods or even consistently decent programs. The idea is getting even just a touch more talent, and maximizing it to fit with what works and having a bowl-eligible team at minimum with some more success here and there. Make football season interesting again.

LSU has lost 3-4 games/season over that same span; I'd say that's not doing much with high-end recruits, and we all know what Texas hasn't done with high numbers of 4 stars. If ISU had those kinds of numbers and didn't have at least one year in the playoffs or a Major Bowl, etc. CF would blow up the inter webs.

 

[Beyerball]

What folks have to understand when looking at CPR class rankings and this staff is to go back and look at the 2012/2013/2014 classes and come back and tell me how many of those higher rated kids actually made it to campus...espcially on the O and D line. It is laughable.

 

[isu81]

Since our LBs got brought up, I'll make a prediction. I think Jake Hummel will be good enough to play (a lot) this fall. He is going to be a really good player for us the next 4 years.

I'm not sure about that, but I definitely think he'll be better in the long run than Vance.

 

[fsanford]

Clondedude is not wrong, not a huge difference in the numbers, but I rather go by who else wanted the kid you got than a rivals ranking

Some PR recruits:
.

Bobby Mcmillan 3 star had 1 other offer Central Michigan.
Sheldon Crowny, 3 star 1 other P5 offer Oregon State

Also I wonder sometimes about Rivals rankings back in 2013. Jacob Homa, a 5.6 3 star with 1 P5 offer that being ISU, rest of offers were from MAC. 5.6 kids get lots of P5 offers, strange this one one did not.

Compare that to an OJ tucker 3 star 5.5.kid from 2017 class offers from Georgia Tech, Kentucky, Mississippi State, Nebraska, Wake Forest,

You tell me which kid a better recruit Homa or Tucker.

Throw in you beat out OU for a kid like Leo and sure seems like progress is being


At minimum ISU should win some recruiting battles with schools that are middle to lower half of their P5 conference. PR had a few, MC sure seems like he is having a lot more.

Was there a kid in that 2017 class that did not have at least 1 if not 2 or 3 P5 offers.

If you click the classes of 2013-2015, by the 2nd kid on the list you probably find a kid with no P5 offers

That said coaches need to Coach. Snyder has won with 2 and 3 star guys for years. His teams are fundamentally sound and do not beat themselves very often. ISU needs to follow same path

 

[isu81]

This season needs to get here. Fast.

Waiting to see what a coach does with the talent he has is most important...take out the first 2, and last game last season, and generally I thought things looked much better fundamentally than CPR's teams which was encouraging. The best athletes on the field were consistently utilized for their strengths...that's a good start.

Repeating but I'm excited for ISU's potential for the first time since just before Texas Tech 2012 and I'm not sure why something that hasn't even happened yet is being compared to a coaching regime that was generally bad beyond the recruiting.

I agree with your overall point, but Texas and TCU were not the greatest either.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

First off..i havent seen many 2 star kids brought in by this staff..thats one. Second, the level of 3 star kids is better than anything CPR brought in overall as a class last 2 years. Third, the number of P5 offers the past 2 classes have seen is a record for ISU and its not close. I dont even look at stars anymore..all i wanna know is who else wanted the kids and this staff is landing a lot of kids that other P5 schools wanted. Last, this staff is bringing in far more higher level OL and DL recruits who are actually making it to campus than CPR and staff ever did.

Recruiting is night and day with this staff over CPR staff.

Agree. Rhoads has to look at Campbell's body of work so far pretty sheepishly. I'm sure Paul wants him to succeed but Matt is making him look like a chump right now IMO.

 

[usedcarguy]

Never underestimate the value of character when recruiting. Campbell likely would have never brought in players like David Irving, whose ambition only seemed to surface when he was on the outside looking in. It's easy to blame those who never made it to the end, but it all still goes back to recruiting. It's all of those intangibles like work ethic and locker room issues, and those all arise because you can't get enough of the kind of players you want.

 

[cc1091]

I was very impressed with Campbell's initial 6 to 8 months of recruiting. I think the stumble out of the gate (UNI game) last season has really hurt with a number of very good prospects pulling away. But I do think that Campbell and his staff keeps an eye on a much larger group of possible recruits than Rhoads and his staff did. Hopefully this fall shows something special, and the recruiting train will continue to rumble on.

I would also like to commend those who point out that chemistry is often the determining factor on the success of the team. In any case, the chemistry I started to see on the field after the first third of the season was over, also impresses me. I believe that getting rid of the few bad seeds/primadonnas may have helped that issue.

 

[madguy30]

I agree with your overall point, but Texas and TCU were not the greatest either.

Yeah, I didn't actually watch those, but I know the TCU game was at least improvement and not a complete mess and Texas was at least competitive and mathematically possible for ISU to be in it.

UNI/Iowa were just messes, and WV had some OK moments but was sloppy.

 

[isu81]

Agree. Rhoads has to look at Campbell's body of work so far pretty sheepishly. I'm sure Paul wants him to succeed but Matt is making him look like a chump right now IMO.

Campbell has certainly shown much more energy on the recruiting front. But most new coaches get some initial pop out of recruiting because they can sell hope, playing time and a new plan. Rhoads' first two full classes classes in 2010 (60) and 2011 (51) were not terribly different from what we've seen out of Campbell.

Not sure Rhoads is looking "sheepishly" as you think. His first season result was 7 wins and a bowl victory. Like Campbell, this was on the heels of 5 wins total in the two years prior to his arrival. He won 24 games in his first four years and went to three bowl games. They beat at least one ranked team in each of those four years.

During that time, Cyclone fans were very hyped about the future under Rhoads, feared we would lose him to other programs and signed him to a big contract and extension. It happens everywhere there has been a lot of losing and a guy comes in strong. Programs like Iowa State are built on sustained recruiting combined with strong development. To the OP's original question, I feel like it's a little early to tell on the recruiting because of how much is dependent on development.

 

[jkclone]

Campbell has certainly shown much more energy on the recruiting front. But most new coaches get some initial pop out of recruiting because they can sell hope, playing time and a new plan. Rhoads' first two full classes classes in 2010 (60) and 2011 (51) were not terribly different from what we've seen out of Campbell.

Not sure Rhoads is looking "sheepishly" as you think. His first season result was 7 wins and a bowl victory. Like Campbell, this was on the heels of 5 wins total in the two years prior to his arrival. He won 24 games in his first four years and went to three bowl games. They beat at least one ranked team in each of those four years.

During that time, Cyclone fans were very hyped about the future under Rhoads, feared we would lose him to other programs and signed him to a big contract and extension. It happens everywhere there has been a lot of losing and a guy comes in strong. Programs like Iowa State are built on sustained recruiting combined with strong development. To the OP's original question, I feel like it's a little early to tell on the recruiting because of how much is dependent on development.

I really don't think Rhoads was ever as bad as people think he is. The thing was he had an incredible amount of bad luck. We saw the change to round robin which I think was a killer for us. We also saw the huge mistake at offensive coordinator after Herman. After those mistakes I think it just wasn't possible to recover.

If Rhoads was hired with the knowledge he has now I think he would be more successful, and be a perennial bowl team.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

Retention was an annual problem for Rhoads, you can't blame that all on bad luck. I liked the guy but looking back at his career as a moral success is only a reflection of our low standards.

 

[Frak]

I hope I'm wrong, but he looked more like a UNI type player to me.

Hummel got an offer after camping. Doesn't really matter who offered at that point. Either the staff can spot talent and develop it or they can't. I think so far they have the benefit of the doubt.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

Hummel got an offer after camping. Doesn't really matter who offered at that point. Either the staff can spot talent and develop it or they can't. I think so far they have the benefit of the doubt.

My father coached, and also coached against Hummel when he was younger. He says he is legit. I'm excited just from watching his highlight tapes. He also showed that he can be responsible for his own body and reported looking far from a true freshman physically. That will reflect greatly on him in Campbell's eyes I assure you.

 

[Frak]

My father coached, and also coached against Hummel when he was younger. He says he is legit. I'm excited just from watching his highlight tapes. He also showed that he can be responsible for his own body and reported looking far from a true freshman physically. That will reflect greatly on him in Campbell's eyes I assure you.

The only thing I've heard about Hummel is that he has worked hard enough in the weightroom prior to ISU that he may be close to maxed out size-wise already. Still, they don't need him to get a ton bigger.

 

[VeloClone]

I really don't think Rhoads was ever as bad as people think he is. The thing was he had an incredible amount of bad luck. We saw the change to round robin which I think was a killer for us. We also saw the huge mistake at offensive coordinator after Herman. After those mistakes I think it just wasn't possible to recover.

If Rhoads was hired with the knowledge he has now I think he would be more successful, and be a perennial bowl team.

And don't forget the conference realignment scares. Many pundits had proclaimed the Big 12 as a dead man walking and everyone put ISU on the short list of schools with no landing spot. What quality D1 player with other options signs up for that?