Your analogy is pretty silly unless it involves a P5 school. The haves/have-nots discrepancy is much more pronounced in the P5 than the lower tiers of schools.
Coaching Graveyard theory.....
- Thread starter Beyerball
- Start date
Your analogy is pretty silly unless it involves a P5 school. The haves/have-nots discrepancy is much more pronounced in the P5 than the lower tiers of schools.
Disagree completely. And I'd put myself in the "Rhoads supporter" category up until very recently. I get your thoughts about culture, recruiting, etc. but there is someone out there who can take ISU to a level it has never been before. And then once we get there (regularly 7-5, occasionally 8-4 or 9-3 with a 1 year downturn every once in a while), then maybe we have to find someone else to take us to the next level. I get that the chances of that are slim to none, but I'm taking the slim part of that as an eternal optimist.
Here's the airport thing in a nutshell, so follow me:
NCAA rules prevent a school from paying for a recruit's parent to accompany them on the visit. Because we are recruiting a lot of Texas/Florida kids if their parent(s) want to come they have to pay there own way, this is an issue in a couple ways 1) since the DSM airport is not a hub the flights from various areas are expensive and are not direct flights, 2) because DM is 30 minutes from Ames it requires the recruit to commute to Ames. If it is just the recruit this is easy because the school can pay for it or pick them up, but if the parent(s) are with they have to pay for their portion (yeah it's a pain to figure that out) of the commute. Where these 2 items come into play is we feel that if we can get the recruit and their parent(s) to campus we have a good shot with them, but if the recruit comes alone because let's say the family is poorer and the parent(s) can't afford to pay their way, we have less of a chance of getting the parent(s) on board, especially if the recruit is being recruited by a school closer to their home..
Just trying to provide some perspective on the whole airport thing that seems to be getting blown out of proportion.
If that's true, then it seems like a waste of money to paying the guy in that position over $2,000,000/yr...just sayin'...
I couldn't agree more, especially when we could use that money for luxury apartments for the bball team.
Alright, then. See: Kansas State. West Virginia. Washington State. Worse example - See: Purdue making the Rose Bowl (although they are terrible right now). None of those schools has big inherent advantages with weather or location compared to Ames. We have better fan support and facilities than all of them. They have all played in a BCS bowl game.
But they are not Iowa State. I don't see how this is confusing. Ill make a bar graph to better explain. Be back in a few minutes.
Whoa - the Johnny Orr situation was unique. After losing in the '76 title game to Indiana, Orr's next four years at Michigan were disappointing. There was the big upset by North Carolina-Charlotte in the Elite Eight in 1977; then his final three years in the Big Ten were 11-7, 8-10, and 8-10. Michigan simply didn't want to keep him anymore, because he wasn't winning. If he was, they would have matched or exceed ISU's offer.
Is there a similar situation out there in college football right now? I don't see one.
Of course it CAN happen at the P5 level. But even when it does, those traditional "have-nots" return to have-not status quickly - see Northwestern, Purdue, Wash State, Duke etc. Plus, it usually takes a few breaks to go your way to make it happen, and we haven't had many breaks go our way lately.
Regardless, maintaining this program at the 2-4 win category for this many years is a clear indictment of the head coach.
I agree with you completely - there's not one out there right now. If there was, I think we should go after it.
Agree with everything. You do have to have breaks. But let's use a hypothetical - would the average ISU fan be unhappy if we looked like Northwestern right now? Ranked occasionally, some big wins and big bowl game appearances. Ups and downs to be sure, but the overall curve is better than ISU.
I was a hopeful Rhoads supporter until Saturday and it wasn't because we lost it was how we lost. There is no discipline. The amount of stupid non-aggression penalties was unbelievable. False starts are especially stupid, you know the damn count and it wasn't like the stadium made things difficult. Holding is holding, you could call it every single play, but damn they are drive killers. Shoving somebody 3 yards out of bounds is stupid too.
BTW the people calling out the staff for Cotton sucking and not being recruited over must have already forgotten Mutcherson. If he would have kept his head on straight he likely would have been better than Floyd and Cotton.
BTW the people calling out the staff for Cotton sucking and not being recruited over must have already forgotten Mutcherson. If he would have kept his head on straight he likely would have been better than Floyd and Cotton.
I hope not, because the K-state/Northwestern scenario is about as good as it gets for programs at the bottom of the P5. And you need to have one of the best coaches in CFB to even make that happen.
I'm with you, Beyerball. I grow very concerned that this type of mindset starts creeping in to the DNA of fans, university, etc. It goes hand-in-hand with the "woe is me, we're Iowa State" mindset....who could win here, what kind of coach could WE get, we're screwed, why try.
While acknowledging it's not as simple as willing or deciding things will be different, I am alarmed by the "we should be happy with what we've got and not expect more" mindset.
You can't change something you're not convinced is changeable. As hard as it is, and as long as it may take, culture can be changed. Glad JP is our AD and not those who have already conceded mediocrity.
While acknowledging it's not as simple as willing or deciding things will be different, I am alarmed by the "we should be happy with what we've got and not expect more" mindset.
You can't change something you're not convinced is changeable. As hard as it is, and as long as it may take, culture can be changed. Glad JP is our AD and not those who have already conceded mediocrity.
Completely understand, but I don't think that is a unique problem to ISU. Most P5 schools in the midwest (B1G and B12) are recruiting heavily from states like Florida and Texas, so they also have to deal with this. Most of them are not located near hub airports, so they also deal with expensive, indirect flights. And most of them are far enough from airports that they have to deal with ground transportation as well. Looking at the schools I listed as examples in my post, I don't think any of them have a significant airport advantage on us for recruiting. I could certainly expand that list to schools like Nebby, Mizzou, Illinois, Wisconsin. Hell, OU is 35 minutes away from the OKC airport.
I do see this as an advantage at places like the Texas schools, where 95% of their recruiting class is in state and the player and family can just drive to campus for a visit. But outside of states like California, Texas, and Florida, this is going to be an issue for tons of schools. It really shouldn't even be brought up as an excuse for ISU.
And Orr was a tremendous get for ISU. Agree - just don't know if there is a big-time coach like that in football that we could get. And don't forget Lou McCullough's persuasive powers with Orr, convincing him to come out here. Do we have that same personality in Pollard? Just a question.
With the right coaching staff, you can win anywhere. KSU was a complete joke before Snyder. Iowa was awful before Fry. Boise State used to be a quirky mountain school with a blue field (which started as a failed publicity stunt). Northwestern went to the Rose Bowl. KU went to the Orange Bowl. Baylor is now a school that is in national title discussions, same with TCU. Some of those schools clearly did a better job maintaining success over the years, but you can win anywhere.
